How will bushcrafters deal with the x-ray lamp posts?

[falling rain]

I personally think the coppers do a pretty good job under difficult circumstances. I was taken away by the law a few years ago when I was pushing my bike home from the pub looking a bit wobbly no doubt. A plain car pulled up by me and 2 burly blokes got out and bundled me into the car. I pooed myself to put it mildly because I thought they were thugs having a random pop. They didn't hit me or rough me up but they were very aggresive and it wasn't a very nice experience. It turns out someone fitting my description was having a bit of a run on burglaries in the area and unfortunately for me, they thought I fitted the description. All was well in the end and I was of course released. A lot of people would have made major complaints about this mistake but I didn't. I was shaken by the whole experience. but I sort of understood the mistake. Wrong place at the wrong time. Having said that though, they could have made a bit more sure before the bundling into the car.
I unfortunately at the moment live in an area of Oxford where there seems to be a lot of hoodies and druggies and there never seems to be anyone doing anything about them. They are very intimidating and I've had a few instances were I have to turn the other cheek when given a bit of verbal. I despise these dregs of society.
What pee's me off more than anything else is smiler Blair spouting off about being tough on crime and the causes of crime etc, etc, etc....... C*ap. Tough on crime means 15 years ( and that means 15 years not time off or half it) for a burglary. Car theft.......10 years minimum and a chuffing good flogging on release. ( I've had my car broken into and trashed and the wheels stolen from it )Not happy. Were I'm living at the moment Northway estate in Headington Oxford makes Lebanon look like Trumpton ( bit of an exageration) I plan to leave as soon as I can.
Not enough prison space?...........Build more then!!! good people are fed up with it.
Sorry for the rant but I'm a bit dismayed with things at the moment in our society.
A very good friend of mine is an acting detective sergeant copper and he's told me stories about their restrictions, paperwork,and nonsense that would make your hair curl. The country has gone nuts. Lord give us a PM who means what he says.
I appologise if I've gone overboard here. Just a few fairly strong feelings at the mo.
And don't get me started on the massive influx of immigrants.
If this is too political Mods.......Please delete it, and my apologies.

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, I think that is getting a bit too political... My blood is boiling right now at some of your comments falling_rain, but I'm not going to continue on this road.

Please restrain yourself.

 

[Bushcraft4life]

Yeah, I think that is getting a bit too political... My blood is boiling right now at some of your comments falling_rain, but I'm not going to continue on this road.

Please restrain yourself.

Yes a bit to political for my liking too but gregorach you have to remember everyone is entitled to their opinion and we are all friends on this community so calm down dude. Let the blood cool down

 

[gregorach]

Yes, people are entitled to their opinions... but this forum does have a pretty strict "no religion or politics" rule.

As for letting the blood cool, either I myself or someone very close to me falls into every one of the vague, ill-defined categories of people f_r is railing against. How would you feel? That's not how "friends" behave. Of course I expect when challenged he would claim that he didn't mean that sort of druggie, hoodie, or immigrant... which is why you shouldn't rail against an entire class of people based on your own perceptions of certain individuals within that class.

Further, f_r's closing remarks clearly indicate that he knows he's crossing the line, yet he hit "post" anyway. When I write a post like that, I write it, read it, get it out of my system, then delete it without posting. Pre-emptive apologies are no substitute for self-control.

 

[Bushcraft4life]

Ok Ok point made mate.

 

[locum76]

bushcrafters could deal with xrays in lamposts by:

1. driving their 4x4 into them to knock them down.
2. using their metal/ knife making skills to make sheaths out of lead to disguise their blades.
3. staying in the woods where there are no lamposts.

 

[dave k]

HI,

I wasn't aware that Politics and / or Religion were not recommended in the general forum - apologies for going off-topic.

 

[Boosh]

Apologies for the thread then everyone, i was under the impression this was bushcraft chatter, and since most of us carry blades of some sort when bushcrafting, and whether you like to admit it or not, many carry items that would be frowned upon if caught with, i just thought it was relevant to bushcraft!

If a law comes into effect in the future which directly targets bushcrafters, does this mean it can't be spoken of here as it's politics? Knife law is dictated by many people, including politicians, however thats a much discussed subject here.

Remember, only the messenger asking a question, just thought some might be interested.

Boosh.

 

[falling rain]

Yes, people are entitled to their opinions... but this forum does have a pretty strict "no religion or politics" rule.

As for letting the blood cool, either I myself or someone very close to me falls into every one of the vague, ill-defined categories of people f_r is railing against. How would you feel? That's not how "friends" behave. Of course I expect when challenged he would claim that he didn't mean that sort of druggie, hoodie, or immigrant... which is why you shouldn't rail against an entire class of people based on your own perceptions of certain individuals within that class.

Further, f_r's closing remarks clearly indicate that he knows he's crossing the line, yet he hit "post" anyway. When I write a post like that, I write it, read it, get it out of my system, then delete it without posting. Pre-emptive apologies are no substitute for self-control.

gregorach - I strive very hard in my day-to day life to abide by all the rules of our land. I practice politeness, courtesy, and humility and a respect for other religions, beliefs and cultures. I'm intolerant of anyone who deliberately trashes my car, smashing all the windows, pissing on the seats, stealing the wheels and leaving my car on breeze blocks, and leaving there fag ends and spliff ends in my car... found a couple of miles away. I paid money for my car that was earnt legally in a good honest job. And to be honest I'm sick of the paltry punishments that get dished out as are most decent hard working people. Everyone has a story to tell about a crime commited against them, and I'd imagine good decent folk are sick of the scummers getting away with it.
If those persons who want to trash cars, joy ride and generally disrespect property that rightfully belongs to other people were to get a job, buy their own cars, and trash them, then fair do's. That would be up to them.
And actually, because I try hard to be a good citizen, I know no one, and choose not to mix with anyone who falls into one of the 'ill-defined categories'.
I know extremely decent people who are less than privelaged, but they have decent morals and principles which in my book is worth a £ million.
Not everyone who is a hoodie, or druggie is bad, as long as they keep themselves to themselves, but if they invade my property and steal from me...... un-invited, take something that belongs to me without my say-so or verbally or physically abuse me when I'm walking down the street minding my own business, then they deserve retribution, which comes in the form of harsh punishment. And what gets dished out at the moment is simply not enough in my opinion.
I'm not against people from other countries coming here for a better life. I'd do the same for my family if I was in their situation. I can't blame them for seeking a better life. BUT........we can't sustain it in our small land. There has to be limits.
I didn't 'KNOW' I was crossing the line I was being polite and acknowledging that this is a Bushcraft website and not a political discussion site, therefore accepting that that if anything I said was inappropriate I would not be offended if it were deleted.
I have not sworn, or made any outright racist or otherwise comments and if it dosn't belong here then move it to the 'Other chatter' section.
I have no 'perceptions of certain individuals in any classes', but if they adversely affect my life in an unsavoury way, then I want them to pay the price......and it should be a higher one than is currently being meeted out.

 

[gregorach]

And you've just made my point for me, f_r - your objections are against individuals who have offended against you, rather than the classes which you identify them with, yet in your prior post you got out a very broad brush and used it to tar all members of those classes (specifically: "hoodies", "druggies", and "immigrants"). If you'd directed your ire against specific individuals, I'd've had nothing to say.

If I'm wronged by a very tall person, I don't start ranting about how much I hate tall people or describe them as "the dregs of society". As for whether you know anyone who falls into any of those categories - how sure are you about that? You've quite possibly met many people in your life who did, but didn't recongise them as such because they didn't conform to your stereotype of them.

Boosh - there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the law and how it may or may not affect us and our hobby. However, rants about sentencing policy for drug users, or about immigration policy, or any similar subject have no place here. That's all I was objecting to.

 

[dave k]

well, I'm not sure if I'm tarring everyone with the same brush, but I'm pritty sure that nearly all bushcrafters have a peverse liking to half-shaven arms

 

[locum76]

boosh.

imo, guns and knives are a very bad thing in the hands of the wrong people and unfortunately we do need protecting from baddies in some way. (ive been in night clubs the night after shootings and stabbings and have to say i did not mind being frisked for metalware even a little bit).

as responsible bushcrafters if we keep our arsenals and cutlery down to that which is absolutely neccessary for our chosen bimbling and keep our kecks olive drab or grey instead of cammo, nobody will even notice us. (apart from the overwhelming stench of woodsmoke, seven day stubble and random bits of string).

 

[falling rain]

I unfortunately at the moment live in an area of Oxford where there seems to be a lot of hoodies and druggies and there never seems to be anyone doing anything about them. They are very intimidating and I've had a few instances were I have to turn the other cheek when given a bit of verbal. I despise these dregs of society.

I am not tarring everyone with the same brush as my other post indicated. If you are a hoodie then that's up to you. Just don't intefere with my life..... And don't steal from me or trash my property !!!
The dregs I refer to are people who unwantedly intefere with me and make unwelcome derogatory remarks to me when I'm walking down the street minding my own business, not hurting anybody.......as is my custom to do.

gregorch - Hoodies, druggies and wasters arn't a 'CLASS'. There can be drug addicts from very well off families, equally there are are waster's from poor families. I am absolutely of the opinion that you can make your own bed,.......and the bed you choose to make is up to you, irrespective of where you're from, the slumiest of places this country has, or the affluent areas. You can get out if you really, really, really want to!! Infiltrating in offensive ways into other people's lives is unacceptable for me.
I have nothing whatsoever against anyone who leaves me alone. And I don't care where who, what, where, why, when, what for your background , race or anything else I deserve to be left alone, and expect it as a consciencious forthright citizen but if they want to upset me, ( or any good citizen) or wreck my belongings or break into my home, or hurt me or my son, then they deserve the harshest of punishements.
Last year a group of 5 (lets say foreign lads then to save political correctness bull*hit who happened to be of second, probably third generation pakistani origin ) surrounded my son on their bikes and started to provoke and threaten him with violence. I'm happy to say my lad is made of fairly tough stuff and he dismissed them (he's a blue belt in ju-jitsu)to cut a long story short all was well, but not ideal, and and he showed no fear to these nasty people. These were just a nasty group of individuals and it makes no difference to me of their origins.
Simple. leave me alone ........and I'll leave you alone.
The dregs I refer to are people who I don't want to bother me in my life....... Leave me alone.
I have met unsavoury characters of course, and I recognise them, but I choose not to associate with them.......That's my choice......no sympathy. You can get it if you really want it....... Anybody......anything.
Druggies chose to take them (drugs) to be 'in with the crowd' I don't accept any other explanation. If you want a good path, you choose it and walk that path,If you choose dogwipes as mates, you pay your dues.........But not at my expense.

eerrrr!! I agree about the x-ray's Boosh by the way......Safe !!

 

[gregorach]

I was using the term "class" to refer to a group or category, not as a Beveridge- or Marx-approved socio-economic label. My apologies if that was unclear.

I have said my piece. Let's just leave it now, OK?

 

[falling rain]

I was using the term "class" to refer to a group or category, not as a Beveridge- or Marx-approved socio-economic label. My apologies if that was unclear.

I have said my piece. Let's just leave it now, OK?

Fair one gregorach. I don't want a slag fest.
It's a difficult one...... and there will be a thousand opinions, about police, society, immigration, etc etc etc You've got yours and i've got mine. Best wishes and no harm meant.

I will apologise for going a bit haywire, off thread to Boosh though. Sorry mate and happiness.

 

[gregorach]

I will apologise for going a bit haywire, off thread to Boosh though.

I think I should probably do the same...

 

[Boosh]

No apologies needed my way but thanks anyway.

A subject that understandably has varied views from people, and believe it or not it was good hearing all of them.

A few lessons learnt for me today so i'll leave this one now. Strictly interesting flora and fungi from here on!

Boosh.

 

[HuBBa]

Well, since we have pretty strict knife laws (and probably axe aswell after a few well publicised attacks ) in Sweden we have a similar problem and the letter of the law is about as vague as it seems to be in the UK.

So the solution for us is simply to keep the knife well packed down in your backpack (middle or bottom of it, hard to access).
The thing they frown upon here is when you have a knife easily accessable and concealed aswell. Ie. if someone miffed you, the knife could be in your hand in a heartbeat. If you have to stop, remove your backpack, unload 2 square meters of equip, unwrap it from it's oiled cloth/paper/leather, and then pull it from its sheet, that would not constitute a concealed easilly accesable weapon =)

And if any officer of the law, good or bad, so wishes to harass you they can and could even before the knife laws were active. The only real difference now is that they will go after you if they see a knife dangling from a belt while you are taking the bus to the woods

The only alternative is to skip the knife. Flintknapping anyone?

Ps. kudos to gregorach and falling_rain for quite possibly performing the first political discussion on ANY forum on the internet where two so radically different oppinions still agree to disagree and continue to be civil Ds.

 

[falling rain]

Right this is for Locum76 's benifit...... who despite me and gregorach agreeing to disagree and coming to a peaceful conclusion has decided to neg rep me and fan the flames once more, and suggest I may be racist. Which I would like to set the record straight on.
Locum76 I didn't swear or use any words in my posts that havn't been used on this site before.
OK granted I may have come across as generalising about hoodies and druggies, and I apologise, but I did also state that they are not all bad, which they are not, but the ones who affect my personal life by illegal actions or verbal /physical abuse are.
Locum76 has accused me of making racist inferences which I'm quite angry about because I certainly am not racist. Were I and my son study Ju-jitsu there are many very good friends of mine who are black and my best friend at work is from Pakistan. My wife is also Japanese. If you mean that I stated where the nasty people who attacked my son were from than, I was merely stating their background to illustrate that they were being racist to my son and they happened to be of Pakistani origin......Is it now not acceptable to use Englishman or Pakistani to describe someones origins.
If you mean my remark about immigrants coming into this country, then I stand by what I said. There ARE too many people from all over the world, including africa, poland, ronmania, russia, black people, white people, asian people .........I don't care their colour, that's not the problem. The problem is that we live in a very small country and we simply cannot accomodate the world's persecuted, and people looking for the land of milk and honey. If we continue to allow everybody from any country into Britain than in 10 yeras or so we are going to be dealing with a very serious problem. Good old Britain , she'll have us and me and all my friends and family and everybody else. As i said In the thread I really don't blame them for wanting to get a better life for themselves and their families.....who wouldn't?, just we can't take them all here. The countries over crowded as it is, so are the roads, and I'm convinced general manners and politeness have gone down and become a lot rarer in society because everyone is so stressed, stuck in traffic, queing for everything. Everyone is out for 'Jack' these days and manners as they were 30 years ago or so, have become very rare indeed.
I wasn't going to continue this thread Locum76, but I won't be accused of being a racist, so you can give me all the negative rep you like .......I'll lose no sleep, but just please be a little careful with the personal insults.
Now .......try again.
Gregorach, I mean no harm and I have said all I have to say. I apologise if I in your opinion worded some comments wrongly,that could have been mis-understood Maybe I could have taken more care then. I'm man enough to apologise.
I really want to leave it at that.

 

[Harry 047]

Very Interesting thread.
For anyone interested google video, " ludicrous diversion's " Not bushcraft related but it fits this thread.
Harry
ps
we are all immigrant's