How do warm blooded people cope

[Pattree]

While I sympathise regarding cold nights camping, I think the OP might be mistaken or misinformed.
I’ve only ever encountered 40 degrees (in the shade) once and that was here in UK - that hot day in summer of 2022. I survived it by staying very still. In Rwanda and Malawi - they rated 35 as uncomfortably hot.
I certainly couldn’t afford to heat the house to that temperature against an ambient of 8 oC which is what we had on average for most of this very mild winter.

In my childhood we had a thermometer that wouldn’t read above freezing and later on in a greenhouse we had a max/min that sometimes indicated a max well up above 45 oC for no good reason even in winter.

I totally agree with Dale. Get some good insulation underneath you. I sleep on sheepskins.

 

[Herman30]

I can´t even understand how it is possible to get the apartment up to that temperature.
To quote Shakespear (sort of): Something is rotten in claim of an 40 degrees apartment.

 

[Chris]

I can´t even understand how it is possible to get the apartment up to that temperature.
To quote Shakespear (sort of): Something is rotten in claim of an 40 degrees apartment.

Romeo and Thermostat, a classic.

 

[lachat]

Here's some bro-science, that works for me......

Eat a meal that's higher in fat a few hours before bed. Infact, have a higher in animal fat diet as a general rule. Settles your metabolism and this relates to being able to regulate your body temperature.

Living in a house/apartment that is artificially heated to 40+ all the time may simply mean you're no longer acclimatised to the outside world, which in the temperate environment is a lot cooler! Try living in a cooler apartment. The added advantage of having cheaper living costs as well!

Your 20 year old sleeping bag may not be as efficient as it once was. I'd look into that if I were you. Any sleeping bag efficiency is improved by preheating it and allowing it to loft for a while before you get into it. Lay it out a good half hour before bed. Give it a good shake to puff it up and don't lay on top of it before you get in it or you'll just compress the fibres and the bag won't retain heat anywhere near as well. Exercise or at least move about a bit before bed. It generates internal heat. As the bag lofts, chuck in one or two disposable heat pads. They're very good. (If your hot water bottle isn't wrapped in an absorbant material, moisture will condensate on the outside of the water bottle and wet your sleeping bag. Think about that.

Wearing a massive ski jacket inside the bag isn't as effective as you think. You're crushing a lot of the jacket by laying on it, and the dampness you have inside the bag in the morning is due to the air not being able to circulate inside the bag and being trapped. This is because you're wearing too many big layers inside the bag.

Feet head and hands are all like little radiators. You lose so much heat from them. Consider wearing light gloves, good thick dry socks and wool Beanie or full balaclava when you go to bed.

I have no aircon and even closing all shutters still gets like a sauna.

Romeo and Thermostat, a classic.

Thanks for all the replys. Some really usefull advise. I live in the Med in a small village with no heating or aircon. I also spend a lot of time on my 29ft cruiser in the Solent. It is very well unsulated and has a log burner. But, in the summer even in UK it gets very warm.

Really shocked how active this forum is its like the ones before FB.

 

[lachat]

You didnt mention what was underneath you so I am guessing just the bivy bag. Most heat is lost into the ground and the exchange coming up feels damp. I dont know anything about gear but when I went hitchhiking in Europe and living outside. The old guys told me to sleep on cardboard and if it got really cold to put newspaper in my clothes. It worked a treat and I've always done it ever since.
ps I reckon that flat of yours is making you soft. Get out in the cold and man up x

A friend of mine who who fight agaist Serbia said about wrapping newspaper around body to stay warm. Completly agree my warm apartment is making me soft but, my british friend ex rugby player was instantly out of action when he walked in my apartment. I told him to man up lol. Most men in warmer climates are for the general a bit wmpy.

 

[Ozmundo]

Hot water bottle. I usually have a Nalgene bottle that in colder weather I put hot water in after cooking my evening meal. I wrap it in something and stick it in the pit before bed.

As has been said by others I go for quite a lot of ground insulation, i.e. cheap mat plus thick self inflating pad. I go with minimal clothing layers in my bag (shorts & t-shirt), my 30+ year old mss intermediate bag is WARM to me like this at 4 to 5C as long as I have protection from wind and rain. Below freezing I start to have to add bits like a woolly hat and/or thin quilt to be comfortable, it's tolerable somewhat lower although not especially restful.

I do keep mid layer clothing & socks in the bottom of bag with me so it's pre-warmed when I need it get up. Which is about a dozen times through the night now...

 

[Herman30]

My girlfriends apartment is heated by electric radiator and electricity is rather expensive, her electric bill is about 100 euros/month.
So she tries to save on heating, this winter she had about +13-14C in bedroom and about +18 in living room. Frickin´cold until one gets under the duvet.

 

[Ozmundo]

I do remember a BBC radio broadcast where the reporter called someone in Sweden to see how cold it was (might have been during the beast from the east) and wasn't very impressed when they replied -12C. They then clarified that was inside the house.

 

[Paul_B]

My great aunt lived in a sprawling cottage which got hot water from a raeburn back boiler. This meant the kitchen was very warm all year round and the living / dining room was warm from a fire and central heating radiators from hot water generated by the raeburn back boiler. All other rooms were unheated. If you needed the toilet in winter you had to make sure you were quick or you'd get frost nip where you'd not want it. I'm fact it was colder than outside somehow. Bitter to say the least!

 

[Van-Wild]

Back to the OPs question about how to stay warm....

On Friday night I made a last minute decision to go fishing with a mate. Soon as I got home I threw a load of gear in the car and hot footed to a prearranged campsite (a C&C one, right by the canal). Upon arrival I realised I had forgotten my sleeping bag!

That night I slept warmly though. I slept on a 3mm foam mat and an Inflatable mat. I wore my clothes (synthetic tshirt and polycotton trousers, light wool socks). I draped myself in a light synthetic puffy jacket (I was wearing it on the way down), a heavier down jacket (always kept in the car), and used a parachute material hammock as a makeshift sleeping bag to trap heat as best I could.

I slept warmly, and only woke in the night due to my buddy snoring in his tent 5ft away! .

 

[MikeLA]

It’s all trial and error because we are all different. I use a modern airmat but did find the old foam mats better. Also sometime we may wear too many layers not letting the sleeping bag work.
I did have a hot drink before getting into the bag but that could also have a negative issue of you might have a toilet break through the night.
Practice !

 

[Paul_B]

I stayed in a static caravan end of October once having left my sleeping bag behind. A kayaking trip so we got cold during the day, and it was a very cold October with bad overnight frosts. I had my clothes on and a few coats over the top with one being a down so smock that kept sliding off, jackets are better. My issue was cold legs so I didn't sleep well.

Whatever clothing you have with your for normal situations they are no substitute for a sleeping bag or quilt. You never get the same warmth with a coat lying over the top of you IME. Plus you can't just wear more clothes as they don't exactly add up the insulation especially if down is compressed. So it's blindingly obvious that you need the right kit for conditions, forgotten kit happens and you have to get by when it does.

 

[lachat]

i got myself a inflatable mat to go on my foil one. Going to test it out on the banks of la loire in France.

 

[TLM]

Plus you can't just wear more clothes as they don't exactly add up the insulation especially if down is compressed.

It adds up, compressed down just has higher heat conductivity than uncompressed.

On the rest I just invoke Broch's conjecture.

 

[Paul_B]

It adds up, compressed down just has higher heat conductivity than uncompressed.

On the rest I just invoke Broch's conjecture.

It doesn't just add up though. There's something to take away due to compressed down in your sleeping bag.

For example you might have a good 900 plus fill power bag and you put a fleece jacket or a 600fp jacket or a primaloft jacket over the top. You could lose insulation in the down greater than that provided by the jacket. I've experienced that with a jacket over an 900fp quilt. Warmer without the jacket on top.

 

[Van-Wild]

I stayed in a static caravan end of October once having left my sleeping bag behind. A kayaking trip so we got cold during the day, and it was a very cold October with bad overnight frosts. I had my clothes on and a few coats over the top with one being a down so smock that kept sliding off, jackets are better. My issue was cold legs so I didn't sleep well.

Whatever clothing you have with your for normal situations they are no substitute for a sleeping bag or quilt. You never get the same warmth with a coat lying over the top of you IME. Plus you can't just wear more clothes as they don't exactly add up the insulation especially if down is compressed. So it's blindingly obvious that you need the right kit for conditions, forgotten kit happens and you have to get by when it does.

I had two jackets. One synthetic, one down. The synthetic one I wrapped round my legs. I zipped it up and had my feet in the hood. The down jacket was draped over me like a blanket. Worked well.

 

[Herman30]

Have to keep in mind it is not the downs that isolate, it is the air that the downs trap. The more compressed downs are the less air in the filling and the lesser air means lesser insulation.
Insulation is all about binding air.

 

[Paul_B]

Have to keep in mind it is not the downs that isolate, it is the air that the downs trap. The more compressed downs are the less air in the filling and the lesser air means lesser insulation.
Insulation is all about binding air.

Yes which is why when a load on the down that prevents that loft which traps air happens it will negatively affect insulation performance. What you're doing is turning 900fp down to 600fp or less down in terms of performance.

There's another point to make. Sleeping bags are usually the most efficient way to insulate the body for a given weight and fp of down. Even if you put a high fp down jacket over a high fp down sleeping bag you don't necessarily get even close to the combined level of insulation. Compression of sleeping bag down plus incomplete coverage by the jacket, airgaps in the jacket coverage, etc. They can all affect the result of course it might all add up to increased insulation and is worth the jacket over the top but that's not a given and I do think you shouldn't rely on it even if you do know it adds warmth overall. Better to have a higher rated sleeping bag if you can.

 

[ged]

If you're really struggling with the cold, try an arctic sleeping bag. They're not ever so cheap but if you throw in a couple of hot water bottles as well I guarantee that you won't be cold in one of those. The arctic bags are a bit bulky though, mine is around the volume of three four-season bags although that includes its own bivvy cover and a ginormous stuff-sack as well. You could try getting a bigger sleeping bag to go outside the existing one, or just throw a single quilt on top. People tell me that they find down better than polymer fillings and I believe them, but I'm allergic to down (took nearly twenty years to find out though - everybody told me I had hay fever) so I can't use anything like that or I find I can't breathe.

A bivvy cover helps enormously with condensation. An ex-army army Goretex bivvy bag will do the job just as well as a Carinthia for a lot less money. I have a couple of the simple army drawstring type and wouldn't part with them for all the tea in China. One of them pretty much saved my life once, I got in soaking wet after a treck in trully horrible weather and woke up perfectly dry the next morning. I always use one, even in a tent. It keeps the sleeper that bit more toasty, and completely dry - especially if like me your feet tend to reach the tent wall and scrape all the condensation off it. Many's the soggy sleeping bag I've had to dry out at the foot-end before I discovered the bivvy bag. If you're not actually using it out in the pouring rain it won't matter if you get a 'seconds' one that's a bit scuffed or has a small repair or two.

You do want a good thick sleeping mat. As has been mentioned, the sleep mat is about thermal insulation, not about lying on a soft surface for the comfort of it. Even though they're a bit bulky I prefer the foam type, because (1) they don't get punctures and (2) I find that I tend to slide off the Thermarest inflatables. I do have a couple of those for when I can't afford the space for a foam mat, as they pack small and they're good insulation.

Other tips like wearing a balaclava and making sure that you snug up the hood are worth noting. Try to have just a hole around your mouth and nose, to breathe through. You don't want to exhale into the bag because you'll just fill it with moisture which you'll have to burn valuable sausage fat to evaporate off. Evaporating one gram of water takes as much energy as heating ten grams of water from 10C to 60C. You lose getting on for 400 grams of water as vapour over a single day just by breathing. Turning that amount of water into vapour uses more energy than bringing two litres of water to the boil! More, if you're working hard, or if you're like me and just sweat a lot. So manage your water vapour if you can, even when you're asleep, because in terms of energy - and that's what keeps you warm - it's costly stuff.

 

[Pattree]

Right now I’m close to Bala lake. I’m in a Snugpack Chrysalis 5 and on a neoprene mat. I was lazy and didn’t dig the sheep skin out of the car. I wasn’t cold exactly but below my hip wasn’t as warm as the rest of me. A quick dive out into the rain (in the pitch black) and I’m snug. Can’t beat a sheep skin.

Edited to add:
The night was 2 degrees C and there was a heavy frost on the canvas.