I should make it clear I'm in no way suggesting a Hollow Handled knife is the dogs danglies for Bushcraft type hobbies or anything else - its just a different and interesting knife design that I already own ( one among so, so many ) and I'd like a smaller bladed version of the same.
Hollow Handled Knives.
- Thread starter TeeDee
- Start date
I presume TLM was just stating he was qualified to question the design from a structural/engineering point of view 
Although I don't desire to own one, I do find the design quite appealing in a way. Dave will correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought it would be possible to take a bit of steel tube and forge one end flat or maybe it would be easier to weld a blade onto a tube - either way, there's no reason why it shouldn't be strong if the profile at the join is correct.
Although I don't desire to own one, I do find the design quite appealing in a way. Dave will correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought it would be possible to take a bit of steel tube and forge one end flat or maybe it would be easier to weld a blade onto a tube - either way, there's no reason why it shouldn't be strong if the profile at the join is correct.
It has the relevance that I am professionally qualified to comment on the "strength" issue, nothing else. So far I have seen just opinions, like:
How many knives have you tested to destruction in a relevant way?
One is more likely to drop and lose a knife than the sheath where I would store things.
Still, what is it good for?
No problem there , it is their money.
But I don't have to like useless knives.
Isn't " Better " just a way of expressing your own opinion??
Did I or anyone else say it was " Better " than anything else out there?
[
My background is also one of Aviation Engineering but It wouldn't be my first choice to try and cite a position of an Argument from Authority into an unrelated public forum on a subject matter that no-one is coming to the fore and stating that 'X' is the better than other things.
Thankfully none - because I'm not seeking or arguing for the statement that this Hollow handled knife is the Strongest Knife design out there and available.
" One is more likely to drop and lose a knife than the sheath " Maybe - That is ALSO an opinion. Have you tested this statement with all the knives and sheaths available out there?????
What would you have attached to your sheath. Genuine Question.
My background is also one of Aviation Engineering but It wouldn't be my first choice to try and cite a position of an Argument from Authority into an unrelated public forum on a subject matter that no-one is coming to the fore and stating that 'X' is the better than other things.
Thankfully none - because I'm not seeking or arguing for the statement that this Hollow handled knife is the Strongest Knife design out there and available.
" One is more likely to drop and lose a knife than the sheath " Maybe - That is ALSO an opinion. Have you tested this statement with all the knives and sheaths available out there?????
What would you have attached to your sheath. Genuine Question.
This is a quote from your post:
"Stronger one piece design than anything else I've encountered."
While it is technically true that you have not said it is "the strongest" (which nobody has claimed) putting the comparative that way almost implies the superlative. VERY close to a strawman argument.
"Stronger one piece design than anything else I've encountered."
While it is technically true that you have not said it is "the strongest" (which nobody has claimed) putting the comparative that way almost implies the superlative. VERY close to a strawman argument.
I am clearly not claiming any authority just that I am professionally qualified on the subject. There is a difference.
ALL KNIVES and SHEATHS. I don't have to. I have carries belt knives for about 60 years, I have dropped knives from hands several times, a few times from the sheath but never lost a sheath on belt. It is not 100% coverage but it is large enough so not to be an opinion any more.
Things you apparently put in the hollow handle.
Storing things, well I think I've covered that twice on this thread already but just for you I'll do it again.
The only thing I could work out to put in there was a little placky container with an oil soaked rag, to just give the blade a wipe down with every once in a while.
It's A2 so not exactly a stainless steel. It also allowed the maker to make it far lighter than it would be were it solid and also for him to tune the balance so it didn't feel numb in the hand.
Whilst on the subject of careers, I used to be quallified as an weld/castings and forgings ( mostly welds though but thats what the quals said) inspector using industrial radiography, magnetic particle and dye penetrant techniques so do still have a tiny idea about stress raisers manufacturing defects and discontinuities in engineering.
No detailed sress analysis though,that was someone elses job.
Also, when I was about five and cared about these things I could get maybe about five foot six on the tiled school bog wall but that did need significant bladder pressure and a flip of the tip, I grew out of that one fast cos it was a disgusting habit.
As for "better?" Please define better?
A while ago I worked on Windermere Jetty and we dropped a couple of tape measures, one hammer and a clamp in the water and I can confirm that the hammer and clamp were found using a big magnet on the end of a slate batten so in that case a higher ferromagnetic to non magneric parts ratio is indeed better.
I'm not entirely sure any of us can fully jusify our all of our knife choices as being "Better" other than to say "I want that one".
People managed ok with flint knives for a significant period of our history so are you suggesting that you personally couldn't sharpen a stick, make a spoon or whatever most people on here do to show a knife works with one?
I suspect you'd make initial complaints then get by just fine, same as most tool using apes would.
Obviously after mentioning it's too heavy? oh hang on, too black? oh hang on Black Knives Matter, err too round. Yeah thats it too round.
Mind you do realise that you're quite possibly the only one here with access to the machines that knock these knives up at work do you?
Bit of cash on the side, plus you'd be able to finite element analysis irritating northerners out of existance with a 3 D render showing beautiful blue, green, yellow and most importantly red (high stress areas) bits to show us what what "better" really means.
Win win.
Storing things, well I think I've covered that twice on this thread already but just for you I'll do it again.
The only thing I could work out to put in there was a little placky container with an oil soaked rag, to just give the blade a wipe down with every once in a while.
It's A2 so not exactly a stainless steel. It also allowed the maker to make it far lighter than it would be were it solid and also for him to tune the balance so it didn't feel numb in the hand.
Whilst on the subject of careers, I used to be quallified as an weld/castings and forgings ( mostly welds though but thats what the quals said) inspector using industrial radiography, magnetic particle and dye penetrant techniques so do still have a tiny idea about stress raisers manufacturing defects and discontinuities in engineering.
No detailed sress analysis though,that was someone elses job.
Also, when I was about five and cared about these things I could get maybe about five foot six on the tiled school bog wall but that did need significant bladder pressure and a flip of the tip, I grew out of that one fast cos it was a disgusting habit.
As for "better?" Please define better?
A while ago I worked on Windermere Jetty and we dropped a couple of tape measures, one hammer and a clamp in the water and I can confirm that the hammer and clamp were found using a big magnet on the end of a slate batten so in that case a higher ferromagnetic to non magneric parts ratio is indeed better.
I'm not entirely sure any of us can fully jusify our all of our knife choices as being "Better" other than to say "I want that one".
People managed ok with flint knives for a significant period of our history so are you suggesting that you personally couldn't sharpen a stick, make a spoon or whatever most people on here do to show a knife works with one?
I suspect you'd make initial complaints then get by just fine, same as most tool using apes would.
Obviously after mentioning it's too heavy? oh hang on, too black? oh hang on Black Knives Matter, err too round. Yeah thats it too round.
Mind you do realise that you're quite possibly the only one here with access to the machines that knock these knives up at work do you?
Bit of cash on the side, plus you'd be able to finite element analysis irritating northerners out of existance with a 3 D render showing beautiful blue, green, yellow and most importantly red (high stress areas) bits to show us what what "better" really means.
Win win.
( Awesome response Sir!! Belly laughing here. )
OK TeeDee, I think we've decided there isn't anyone here that can make you a smaller version of the knife
Why do all these knife discussions get so tediously subjective then argumentative? Why can't people just accept that sometimes we choose things out of personal choice and we don't need to justify that choice?
Why do all these knife discussions get so tediously subjective then argumentative? Why can't people just accept that sometimes we choose things out of personal choice and we don't need to justify that choice?
OK TeeDee, I think we've decided there isn't anyone here that can make you a smaller version of the knife
Why do all these knife discussions get so tediously subjective then argumentative? Why can't people just accept that sometimes we choose things out of personal choice and we don't need to justify that choice?
Mostly I think Two things.
1 ) Pedantry
2 ) Ego.
( But mostly the latter. )
I used to be NDI qualified, hated crawling in aircraft airducts and engine spaces, landing gear were easier. That did not teach me anything about stress raisers, manufacturing defects yes, discontinuities no. It was the constructive courses that did. Call a false on that.
Done my share of pretty coloured FEM pictures that actually are very good at impressing the ones that don't understand much anything.
Now if somebody remembers, the original call was "what is the point with a knife like that?", that did not get any answers so to get something I did upgrade it one notch to "better", that got an awesome (TM) meta about something.
It seems to end with the final point that that type of knife is good for storing oily rags.
Keep on laughing.
Done my share of pretty coloured FEM pictures that actually are very good at impressing the ones that don't understand much anything.
Now if somebody remembers, the original call was "what is the point with a knife like that?", that did not get any answers so to get something I did upgrade it one notch to "better", that got an awesome (TM) meta about something.
It seems to end with the final point that that type of knife is good for storing oily rags.
Keep on laughing.
The thing that has cheesed a few off is your insistence that there has to be a point or a use for a knife like that. Just accept the answer that there is probably no objective reason. I, personally, see no point in carrying a weak stick tang or partial tang knife around that is more easily broken than a full tang but I don't insist at every opportunity that people agree with me or that they justify their argument - they're prettier, I accept that.
NO - please do not start a discussion on the merits about various knife designs - that statement was made just to show how different people have different needs and tastes.
Regards,
Broch
(AKA Eur Ing Axxxx Hxxxxxx MBA, BSc Ceng MIMechE if we're 'pee***ng up the wall)
I do have a few of those, then again I do also have some full tang ones. So what.
That is something I don't think anyone presented before this, I would change "objective" or take it away.
So oily rags it is.
My primary "taste" is functionality, there is a whole world of knives that fall under that.
Ah, now that is the nub of it. I think I am well documented in making similar statements - I use knives as tools. However, I do understand how some people like the look or feel without trying to justify a function. I don't necessarily understand their tastes or reasoning but I don't expect them to justify it to me.
So, if I was to precis how this discussion should have gone:
TD -anyone able to make a small version?
Others - no
TLM - why would you want one?
TD - 'cos I want one
TLM - I don't understand why but that's your choice and I respect it
I regret that I didn't help the discussion by joking about it in the first place.
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There is an additional problem of language, I am not even nearly a native speaker of English and Finno_Ugric languages have very different internal structures from Indo-European ones. I think that I catch the main and literal meanings fairly well but connotative ones especially British have sometimes a tendency of going by.
I think our Nice65 kicked me out of BB for a few weeks for somewhat similar reasons.
Thanks for being polite my answer would probably have been on the lines of: "I don't even try to understand why and I don't respect it but you can have it."
I think our Nice65 kicked me out of BB for a few weeks for somewhat similar reasons.
I presume TLM was just stating he was qualified to question the design from a structural/engineering point of view
Although I don't desire to own one, I do find the design quite appealing in a way. Dave will correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought it would be possible to take a bit of steel tube and forge one end flat or maybe it would be easier to weld a blade onto a tube - either way, there's no reason why it shouldn't be strong if the profile at the join is correct.
I've been giving the idea a little more thought too. The easiest way to make it from solid would be to bore out the handle portion and then either grind or forge the blade end. If i were to make it from two sections, then the pipe could be forge welded (which is how i often make spear heads), electric welded (farid told me that he tig welded and then filled with epoxy from the back when making those rambo things), thread and glue, or best in my opinion would be to braze it together. Brazing would be at least as strong as the one piece method.
If you tried to forgeweld a tube to make the blade, then it would be difficult to get a good weld that didnt thin where you need the most strength. I often forge weld a stubby tang into pipe when making spears or large socketed chisels/gouges. The advantage it has here over brazing is that you could forge the handle to an oval (leaving the end round) and the handle could flow nicely into the blade. With brazing, you want a good fit to begin with, so a round tang stub amd round hole are going to be easiest to do.
TLM, what you can and should respect (basic manners) is the fact someone wants a particular knife without continually badgering them to justify why and explain why it's better then another design without them claiming it to be so.
It's just rude annoying and thread killing
It's just rude annoying and thread killing
