Historical Trekking suppliers in the UK?

[tombear]

Over the last few years I have slowly been picking up a sort of 18th centuary bushcraft kit. At some point I'm intending to a bit of what I think of as "rough camping". Don't ask me why it just appeals.

Anyroad, so far I have aquired the below, mostly made for the reenactment market in the US.

I've some more bits of tin ware on order and have instructions to make a haversack when I've aquired some suitable linen.

Clothing wise I'm not going for the full authentic look but will be using natural materials, buttons and toggles rather than zips and velcro. For footware I've aquired a pair of hobnailed boots which are only a toecap off being Bluchers (SP?). I've some wool shirts, the obligatory (;-{D) Swanni bushshirt and one Christmass herself treated me to a lovely "Smoke and Fire" Whitney blanket Capot. Trousers I've not sorted yet, the same goes for a linen shirt and I have a vague inclination towards a oil skin smock.

Theres other stuff to source such as a oilskin tarp and as far as I'm concerned it will be something for the summer only but does anyone know of suppliers of 18th centuary type kit in the UK?

ATB

Tom

 

[Wayland]

Some really nice bits there.

I'm having similar fun outfitting my pirate persona at the moment but I'm finding America to be by far the best source for this period so far.

Luckily the colonial dollar isn't what it used to be so it's a good time to by from that side of the pond.

Is there anything specific you were looking for? I might know a few people that could help.

That grumpy blacksmith Mike Ameling might be able to give you some pointers too.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Yeah, that exchange rate keeps flipping around on everybody.

And once you look into it, shipping costs are pretty low/reasonable when going across the pond.

I haven't heard of any suppliers in the UK - at this time. But I also haven't gone looking for any.

One major supplier of ... stuff ... to check out would be Crazy Crow Trading Company in Texas. They do catalog retail, but they are also the major wholesale supplier for most of the other vendors here in North America. http://www.crazycrow.com

Other companies to look on the web for would be:
Dixie Gun Works
Track of the Wolf
Bradley Company of the Fox
October Country
Avalon Forge

There are also Resources links on the various Living History message boards.

http://www.historicaltrekking.com/forums/index.php
http://www.frontierfolk.net/phpBB/index.php
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php?
http://www.traditionalmuzzleloading...bb2/index.php?http://www.northwestjournal.ca/
http://www.furtrade.org/

These should give you a bunch of good reading/info/details, and point you in the right directions.

And there are similar message boards and resouce listings for people interested in the PIRATE life, those Vikings (more properly called Northmen), English Civil War - Jacobites, Roman Legions, WWI and WWII, and most any other area of historical interest you might want to play in.

Hope this helps you on your journey. Let us all know of your progress, and if you need any more assistance.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
- currently focused on the 1600-1700's Mississippi River Illinois country areas of les Pays d'en Haut of Nouvelle France

 

[Wayland]

See...I knew he would have something useful to say....

 

[John Fenna]

Have you tried www.sutlers.co.uk ?
The |Sutlers stores do a range of 1700 to 1950 period civilian dress.
Not chaep though!

 

[tombear]

Thanks Wayland
Thekidney shaped water bottle is by

http://www.cg-tinsmith.com/catalog2.htm

I've no connection with them except being a very satisfied customer. Their customer care was amazing and I'm geting some more bitsfrom them, all closely copied from originols.

The knife is by "River Traders" and based on a English trade knife. I originally got it with the sheath with the belt slot at the side but later got the lower one (also made by RT). I got them, the medalion sharpening stone, large horn spoon, fire steel and tommahawk (Cold Steel, I forget the model. I got a spare handle at the same time) all from Ragnar at

http://www.ragweedforge.com/Welcome.html

at various times. I've no connection with him either but can recommend him highly.

The axe head case, spoon case and wooden spoons I made myself. The folder is a Okapi and after I replaced the shiny split ring with a grenade pin ring is a pretty good stand in for a 18th C one. Well anything that is closer would cost a hell of a lot more!

Yup the dollar being so weak has ment I've been getting some nice stuff from over there but I still begrudge the postage, which is sometimes as much as the item cost.

The main things I'm looking for, ideally the materials to make my own as I quite enjoy hand sewing, is a oilskin ground sheet come basha tarp sheet, something like Osberg linen to make a couple of bread bags/ haversacks and some one to turn some Swanndri material I cadged into a tam. Later when I've more disposable income theres some other goodies I'd like.

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

Uw, two more replies while I was pecking out the last message!

Thanks John and Mike, lots of interesting sites to vist there.

All the best

Tom

and in honour of Shewie sourcing the smokers oilskins, heres what i'm doing with mine...

 

[Mike Ameling]

When you get to the Crazy Crow site, check out their "oilclothe". They are now carrying them in "spanish brown" color. It's a very well documented color. In the past they only had green and blue available - and on rare occasion black. But blue is not documented to the 18th century, and that green is ... um ... questionable. Now, this oilclothe is made from Egyptian Cotton, and is finished with a modern chemical treatment to make it "water resistant" - both of which are not historically correct for any time period before the 1900's. So there are a lot of people who will not use it because of the type of material and the type of finish/waterproofing. It's a matter of personal choice.

But don't write off cotton just yet. Linen as well as wool are correct fo the 18th century, as well as hemp. But cotton was available in the right times and places. It tended to be more expensive than linen back then, but was available. Some cotton shirts show up in trade goods lists up in New France in the mid to late 1700's.

Nice grouping of early style clay pipes. But it leads to another of my little interests. I don't smoke, but I have been hammering out some Sheet Iron Trade Pipes. They look pretty much like the clay pipes, just made out of iron. Original sheet iron pipes have shown up from the 1600's down on the Gulf Coast at the Tunica village sites, up along the Atlantic coast through the 1700's, and throughout New France - especially around the Great Lakes Fur Trade Area. They even have been found in the upper Ohio River valley around 1800.

I saw them in the books and museums, but didn't see anybody making them. So I started. Here's a pic of several. Some were just the pipe bowl - and were used with a reed stem. Some were made with a full lenght iron stem. There were even similar ones made from sheet brass. At a Seneca Indian village site up in New York state, they even found a brass one that still had part of the stem still wrapped in rushes.

And that bottom one got ... graffiti'd by a brit sailor reenator buddy of mine. He's been doing a bunch of fancy knot work and sailors' ditty bags. He absconded with several of the iron pipe I made, and presented me with this one. Very nice needle hitching and fancy knots!

Just one of those ... little details ... of history that you discover along the way.

But now I have to get my butt in gear. I have to make up around a dozen of the full stem iron pipes by the beginning of April for a trade fair. I don't mind the work. It mostly keeps me out of trouble, and from having to ask you if "... you want fries with that? ..." The hard part is not getting talked out of a few before the trade fair.

Have fun with the rest of your kit/gear. And discovering all those little ... details ... of history along the way.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Wayland]

Might be interested in one of those iron ones myself Mike.

Drop me a line.

 

[tombear]

Hi Mike
cheers!

I'm only occaisional smoker myself now, just a few ounces a year, but somtimes when the suns shining and the traffics out of ear shot the old pipeweed comes out.

Most of the clays have come from junk stalls or charity shops for a couple of quid each. I did pay a fiver for the longest, it was part of a framed sales display that the owner of the antique shop broke up. The second (still unsmoked) longest I got a fortnight ago for £2 still in its tissue lined box with a dedication on the front saying it was a present from the "See", Christmass 1953. So it must have belonged to a Bishop or at least a member of his staff....

I tried making some linseed oilcloth a few years back and have a varriation on a smokers pouch made from it somewhere still. I couldn't stop it being tacky no matter how long it was left on the line outside. If I remember right the instructions I followed involved mixing it with some beeswax and turpentine...

Very interesting iron pipe heads you've made. They look extremely fit for perpose and like they would last on the trail. Naturally clays break from time to time but so far only two by me. To confuse future archealogists I buried them of course ;-{D)

When I see some suitable felled birch I will make bark tubes to take the two clay churchwardens so i can carry them about.

I suppose i should practice with the tinder box (I'm fairly hopeless) as well...

ATB

Tom

PS heres something else I made, well finished and put a handle on, to go with

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17983

I need to make a safety tube for that as well.

 

[Mike Ameling]

There's a pretty active Living History group in Finland. You might want to check them out.

http://cows-finland.org/kuvagalleria/index.php?cat=10004

They are involved in a number of time periods, from 1700's on up to the cowboy/old west of the late 1800's. Some very good pics of their gatherings and people.

I also forgot to include the link to the Canadian Library's online magazine on the early fur trade history.

http://www.northwestjournal.ca

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[AnnaD]

Your post reminded me of a UK website I found ages ago with some really lovely stuff that may interest you. I just had a look for it and I think it's the following link; http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/index.php
This one is more for knives and cooking sets, but also has lovely stuff. I think they may both be the same person.
http://www.theenglishcutler.co.uk/index.htm

 

[Mike Ameling]

Yeah, oilclothe made with linseed oil takes a looooooong time to dry! And it can get "sticky" in warm weather, but also gets really stiff/hard in cold weather. But adding bees wax to the mix does make it take longer to dry and really increases that sticky/tacky feeling.

The original "oilclothe" was made with just raw linseed oil with some coloring added. Yellow is just the linseed oil. Spanish Brown was made by adding RUST (iron oxide). For black they added lampblack (soot from a flame/fire).

Boiled linseed oil has been -- boiled, and that does affect its properties a bit. It also tends to have some other chemicals added to help it dry - turpentine, japan dryer, etc. These extra "dryer" chemicals do speed up the drying process, but they also can affect your clothe. The clothe tends to get more ... brittle ... with age - kind of like dry-rot.

The Historical Trekking and Northwest Journal sites do have some good info on making your own oilclothe. And, of course, there also have a number of different "recipes". They all work, and each has its own ... quirks.

But the most historically accurate version is to just use raw linseed oil. And then use it to treat linen or hemp clothe. Some oilclothe was made from cotton canvas, but most was hemp or linen. Note: hemp canvas was one of the major materials used for ship's sails back then. And most of the ropes/rigging was made from hemp rope.

I've made a few haversacks and a sailor's jacket where I treated them with --- pine tar. Many things onboard the sailing ships back then were coated with pine tar. Stockholm Tar was preferred when available. Yes, they took a loooooong time to dry, just like with linseed oil. And they can occasionally be a little tacky/sticky. But I am well pleased with how they turned out. They fit in well with anybody who is or has been associated with the sea/sailing. It's also one of the reasons they called Brit sailors --- Tars!

More humble thoughts to share.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[tombear]

Thanks folks for all this great info and links!

I've been vaguely poking around for information on bushcraft/field craft from other frontiers as well as the North American one. From Australia there the wonderful Ron Edwards "Bushcraft" series of books which I can't praise too highly. Although theres some aboriganol stuff in them most is a mix of social history and practical outback skills from the 19th and early 20th C.

I hope that someone has done similar research/ writing for Southern Africa, theres no end of publications on the native peoples, which is right and proper, but I'd be interested in knowing about the skills the early European settlers and explorers brought, developed or borrowed. Certainly in Oz there seams to be a urge to record these skills/ artifacts.

Also has anyone published on the tools and skills used in India, especially on the North West frontier?, what the explorers and soldiers used and copied from the natives. Straight military research tends to cover just regulation/issue kit (often highly unsuitable for the climate) rather than what was actually used.

Time to bite the bullet and cough up for some suitable linen. I've been trawling the charity shops for some heavy, plain tablecloths but suddenly there are non to be had now I want them.

All the best

Tom