Hike and Camp - How much weight is too much?

[petrochemicals]

If you put in
5kg of food
1kg bag
1kg clothes
1kg water
You are already at 8 kg from the off. 15 kg is very respectable!

Fuel can add 1kg each
And the cooker and pans can add 1kg (between 2)

Half decent bag 1.5 synthetic
Shelter (one with headroom I find is worth the weight penalty) vango halo 3kg versus the vango banshee 2kg, you will feel better rather than worse after a night in it.

And so on........

 

[Janne]

5 kg food?

 

[mrcharly]

5 kg food?

Beer is heavy

 

[Janne]

If you put in
5kg of food
1kg bag
1kg clothes
1kg water
You are already at 8 kg from the off. 15 kg is very respectable!

Fuel can add 1kg each
And the cooker and pans can add 1kg (between 2)

Half decent bag 1.5 synthetic
Shelter (one with headroom I find is worth the weight penalty) vango halo 3kg versus the vango banshee 2kg, you will feel better rather than worse after a night in it.

And so on........

Beer is heavy

Only 5 kilo of food?

 

[petrochemicals]

I'm a growing boy!

Well I suppose the best you can get is nuts at about 5500kcal a kilo, and most do not get close to that, 250 to 400 ish plus any extras, that is about 4000kcal a day. So I suppose if most people with a physical outdoor job easily eat that 5 kg is a bit light for 4 days. I will have to bulk up when I get home!

4 days breakfast
Bacon(24 rashers dry cured) 800g
Bread (16 slices+2 crusts for the fat) 800g
eggs (6 as they do not do 8's) 400g

That's 2kg and 1500 kcal on breakfast, it is the most important meal of the day though!

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Some of the 'ultralight' treckers get it down to about 6kg or so, I think they're very selective about what they bring along though. For most of us mere mortals 15kg is pretty respectable.

http://gizmodo.com/a-gear-geeks-guide-to-ultralight-backpacking-1577128269

 

[Old Bones]

Ultralighters are a bit of an extreme. For most of us, going that stripped down looks pretty uncomfortable, or your spending a lot of money to get kit down to the weight/bulk that you want.

There is one big difference I've noticed between a lot of bushcrafters and most hikers, and that is weight. That doesn't mean there isn't a crossover - the sort of bushcrafter who has little more than a tarp, and bedroll and a knife is very similar to the ultralighter who has a tarp, a very minimalist sleeping bag and something made from titainium.

But I do notice that army surplus, for instance, is generally very popular (from LK35 packs to Lavvus, to issue synthetic sleeping bags), in a way which you simply dont find on a hiking site. And thats for a lot of reasons, but the key one is weight/bulk.

Looking at the load of the OP - lose the hatchet, the tarps, the mess tins (you can't cook in them, nor do much else with them), and have one means of brewing up, not two (why the need for the Pathfinder set?).

But as long as not more than a fifth of your body weight is your total load, you should be OK. A lighter sleeping bag for your wife should bring down both weight and bulk, and as long as you have decently adjusted packs with good transfer of the load to both hips and shoulders, it wont be too uncomfortable.

Carrying stuff is a learning experience, and we all make modifications based on experience. And its worth bringing stuff along to make things more comfortable - carrying less is good, but being miserable for several days and nights is worse.

 

[Janne]

Share eating from the cooking pot.

If you plan to do the 4 day'er in summer, I am not so sure about bringing bacon. No fridge, it may go off. I suggest you take a product called Summer Sausage, if you can find it in UK. If not, take a horrible American biproduct calked Spam. Or take Corned Beef.
Bacon the first morning, then sausage and eggs. Or Spam/Corned Beef and eggs.

You need to keep the eggs in a sturdy container.

If you can be without eggs, porridge is light and tasty. Even the quick cook, ready flavoured and sugared ones. Lots of energy there!

Bread? Yes nice. But again, you need a good sturdy container unless you fancy bread crumbs.

Personally I would suggest dry cracker bread, Ryvita or Wasa. In a sturdy container. Light. Lots of fibre, good for the bowel movement.

You forgot to mention loo paper!

Need energy as you are growing? Chockolate.

I am not a bushcrafter. Nor am I an Ultralighter. Just a guy with dodgy back and a dodgy knee. I like to walk long, and walk fast. Carry the essential, nothing more, nothing less.

You like coffee? Take a quality brand with you. And a small bottle of whisky or rum
Like tea? Take a small bottle of rum.
Being outdoors is lovely. Even lovelier to sit watching nature with a tasty, relaxing beverage in your cup!

No need for a head torch.
Not sure about spare clothes. 4 days - not much BO. Just natural Pheromones. Wife will like it!
Socks - yes.

 

[petrochemicals]

I am not so sure about bringing bacon. No fridge, it may go off. Summer Sausage,

As this concerns bacon, it is of the utmost importance. Dry cured bacon will last where as wet will not, bacon was created to preserve it before the wet cure came along . It's avaliable in most supermarkets, and traditional butchers

Bacon the first morning, then sausage and eggs. Or Spam/Corned Beef and eggs.

Like

You need to keep the eggs in a sturdy container.

Keep em in a bag outside your rucksack

porridge

As in prison

Bread? Yes nice. But again, you need a good sturdy container unless you fancy bread crumbs.

Keep it outside your rucksack

dry cracker bread, Ryvita or Wasa.

See porridge

No need for a head torch.

Do you think?

Not sure about spare clothes.

I do like a clean t shirt and clean pants when going into a town. And a few spare socks are good, dirty socks cause blisters, wet socks cold, especially in bed. Jumper can be good addition.

 

[Janne]

You do not like Oats Porridge?

Can you still get the original old fashioned slow cured bacon?

I do not like keeping anything on the outside of the backpack. Can get lost or broken plus it goes against the remains of my army training....

Crackerbread is what makes Scandinavians (and Finns) tall, strong and sexually irresistible!

A head torch is not needed! You sit outside the shelter at sunset, enjoying a beverage, watch parts of nature going to bed and the other parts awakening, then have a quick wee then go to bed.
I always select an area, and memorise the path to it, in case nature calls during night.

 

[petrochemicals]

Yep if you get to a proper butcher, you can have it cut from the sides he's got out the back to your required thickness rind on or off, streaky middle or back, smoked or salted. That's at least 6 sides. For the princley sum of 6.30 a kg . Or you can go in the supermarket and get a nitrogen sealed pack of dry cure for 2.50 for dry cured (ish) 300 g bacon, it quite popular.

I do like porridge, usually in winter made with fresh milk, not water, with sugar or golden syrup. But it's a bit lacking in substance when doing a days hiking. I have tried it on the choice of others, maybe il try throwing some bacon in it!

 

[Janne]

Polenta might be nice with the bacon. Easy to cook yourself.

I always carry "dry" food. Rice, rolled oats, Wasa crackerbread, dry figs.

 

[Lazy J]

If you're doing a lot of leg burning hill climbs then 15kg will be a bit of a pain, but I've always found that with a properly fitted pack you can carry a lot more!

 

[UKYanky]

Ok so the 2 nighter went really well. And we learnt a great deal too.

The Trangia 27 was a great success although the kettle was useless as it doesn't hold enough water for 2 mugs of tea. So this wont be coming again and frees up some room to pack my brew kit maybe.
e. (Would be great for solo though, but in those cases I still would just use my Pathfinder bottle kit anyway).
So yeah, the Trangia 27 will defo feature on future outings. We made a full English on it

The Pathfinder Steel Bottle had its place too, bear in mind the stove and cup are all part of the bottle and so takes up no room or weight. Very handy and got used alot on the open fire too.

The MSR pots did get used but I could of managed without them, they didnt provide anything the Trangia didnt. So its one or the other based on type of trip that will decide which I take in future. We did make a Swedish Fire Torch though and used the MSR pots on that, great fun!

The mess tins are handy to have especially when serving the grub up, only one can eat out of the cook pot after all. Someone in this thread you cant cook with them? I have the Aluminium RAF issue mess tins and you can cook on them, boil water and there great to eat out of too. They also serve as a container too. think they will make the list again until I can be comfortable without.

A landowner gave me permission to cut up a dead tree so the Laplander and Hatchet got used extensively. These are must have items in my opinion. The knife I used for making fire sticks etc so got used a fair bit too. I agree with some of the comments here though, under normal conditions the knife and the laplander saw would do us at a pinch. So the hatchet wont make all trips in future.

As it was nasty on Sunday, I stuck a tarp up to keep kit, firewood and US dry but I didn't use the other so only one tarp next time!

Food wise, I packed some premixed bannock, some pre made shwarma, stir fry kit for night 2, and sausages and beans for breakfasts (got some eggs from a local farmer to add to it).
We ate good and was happy with that.

A water filter is a definite next purchase, we boiled our water so wasn't too big of a deal but it'll be nice not to worry about stuff like that on the hike itself.

Our next adventure is planned for end of March, up in the Peak District so we will be implementing the lessons learnt and hopefully see another successful trip out.

Thanks again folks for the tips and advice.

 

[mousey]

Awesome, the only thing I'd add is a request for some pictures - I enjoy reading about when people get out and about though

 

[punkrockcaveman]

Nice report sounds like you had a great time!

Re mess tins, would plastic plates be an option instead?

With regards to the saw, there's a mears vid on you tube that shows how to split wood with a saw, might be a good skill to learn the next time you decide to leave the hatchet behind?

 

[Old Bones]

Glad you had a good time, and tried out various options.

I was the one that said:

The mess tins are handy to have especially when serving the grub up, only one can eat out of the cook pot after all. Someone in this thread you cant cook with them? I have the Aluminium RAF issue mess tins and you can cook on them, boil water and there great to eat out of too. They also serve as a container too. think they will make the list again until I can be comfortable without.

My mess tins are also issue ones (dated 1954!), but the problem I found with them is that while you can fry stuff with them, its a right pain to get stuff out of them, because of the high sides,plus the metal is a little thin and you get hot spots. Soup, stews and pasta are OK, but a fryup is a pain. Trangia do a nice frying pan, which just works (and the 27's saucepans work fine as bowls). And while you can eat out of mess tins, there are loads of bowls etc on the market which I found nestled better and are easier to clean afterwards (no awkward corners). I eventually gave up the mess tins, and went with other things, but its whatever works for you.

The Trangia 27's kettle is small - although the 27 is supposed to be for 1-2 people. The Trangia 25's kettle holds. 0.9L (as opposed to 0.6L for the 27), but Alpkit have one that holds 1.3L for just a tenner https://www.alpkit.com/products/hauka .

It sounds like you had a good time, and with the weather improving, you'll have the chance to get out a lot more as well. And yes, lets see some pictures!

 

[UKYanky]

Awesome, the only thing I'd add is a request for some pictures - I enjoy reading about when people get out and about though

I did do some videos which I will post up (I didnt want you guys to think I was spamming or fishing for subs). Will definitely do some pictures next time though as often they portray a scene which conjures the imagination.

Nice report sounds like you had a great time!

Re mess tins, would plastic plates be an option instead?

With regards to the saw, there's a mears vid on you tube that shows how to split wood with a saw, might be a good skill to learn the next time you decide to leave the hatchet behind?

I will check out the RM video. that does sound like good knowledge to add to my repertoire.

Glad you had a good time, and tried out various options.

My mess tins are also issue ones (dated 1954!), but the problem I found with them is that while you can fry stuff with them, its a right pain to get stuff out of them, because of the high sides,plus the metal is a little thin and you get hot spots. Soup, stews and pasta are OK, but a fryup is a pain. Trangia do a nice frying pan, which just works (and the 27's saucepans work fine as bowls). And while you can eat out of mess tins, there are loads of bowls etc on the market which I found nestled better and are easier to clean afterwards (no awkward corners). I eventually gave up the mess tins, and went with other things, but its whatever works for you.

The Trangia 27's kettle is small - although the 27 is supposed to be for 1-2 people. The Trangia 25's kettle holds. 0.9L (as opposed to 0.6L for the 27), but Alpkit have one that holds 1.3L for just a tenner https://www.alpkit.com/products/hauka .

It sounds like you had a good time, and with the weather improving, you'll have the chance to get out a lot more as well. And yes, lets see some pictures!

You have raised some good point there Old Bones, and I agree with all of them to be fair, especially the cleaning part! I will start looking at plastic bowls as a solution as you and punkrockcaveman suggest. BTW I have the frying pan for the 27, did the sausages in it.

Do you use a kettle usually or do you just use a pot to boil? I think a kettle could be a bit of a luxury for a hike camp but would be great for a 'base' camp where weight and space is not a premium.

I will start doing some reviews on my kit, from a beginners perspective of course in the hope I can help other beginners learn from some of my pitfalls.

 

[Janne]

The Gods invented paper cups and plates with the nature hiker in mind.
Light and you do not need to wash them. Just put them in the fire!
Also make a good second stage fire starter.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Good write up and good to hear that you had a nice trip. When all is said and done you just need to get out and experience what works for you. Now you undoubtedly have a much greater idea of what to do next time and you'll probably enjoy it even more.

The points you've made about the trangia 27 kind of highlights why I favour the trangia triangle. There's no bulk and I enjoy the flexibility of being able to pick which pots and pans I want for the trip (works great with the msr pan and mess tins!!). On the subject of mess tins, have you seen the stainless steel dutch army version? They're great bits of kit, don't cost a lot and clean up nice and and easy.