Hi Viz test, orange versus yellow in the woods

[w00dsmoke]

A few threads back -which I can't find... there was a topic which came up concerning the visibility of hi viz colours in the outdoors.
So today as promised I did a little test and this is not scientific in any way, just subjective. I used a military Air Marker Panel whichi is hi viz orange on one side and hi viz yellow on the other.

Yellow side

Orange side from further away.

A strange thing happened while setting the marker up and taking the photo's, a Royal Navy Rescue Helicopter flew over us and circled for several minutes before flying towards Ben Lomond as I dived on the panel to try and roll it up fast and indicate to the crew that we were ok... I'm sure this was pure coincidence as I made sure that it couldn't really be seen from anywhere other than within the woods we were in and we were well obscured by the form of the land from any path etc.

Anyway, what do you reckon? What stands out best?

WS

 

[sapper1]

I would say the orange,also in the autumn there could be yellow leaves on the trees the same colour as the yellow.I'm not sure but I think orange is more recognised as a distress colour than yellow as well

 

[Pantalaimon]

For work I often wear vests like that. Yellow is brighter than orange you could say, but orange is more 'out of place' in the woods. I would vote for orange

 

[smoggy]

Looking at those pics, I'd say the yellow stands out more....and I think in reduced light the difference would be even more prominent.....

However, as anyone with even the slightest understanding of camoflague knows....with the right background anything can become virtually invisible....an effect I've seen before when a cyclist sporting yellow Hi Vis passed a rape field in full bloom!

It's for this reason that a lot of Hi Vis now sports two colours and refective banding...

Can I ask the reason for your "experiment"?

Smoggy

 

[Nagual]

I agree, the yellow is certainly brighter, but the orange has greater contrast. I would suggest using a combination of both if possible, in diagonal strips. Don't ask me why diagonal, something from way back in the deep recesses of my brain seem to be saying something to do with ranges et al from my army days.. but really don't know.

 

[forestwalker]

Two uses for them: to mark an emergency shelter for searchers, or to make it easier to find your way back to your shelter (think DPM basha on dark moonless nights) if you need to wander away for any reason.

The rescue heli almost certainly saw it as a possible marker, and investigated as a matter of course. if nothing else the "make your place visible" is part of the hug-a-tree program

 

[w00dsmoke]

Can I ask the reason for your "experiment"?

Smoggy

In a previous thread about camouflage the subject came up and someone suggested orange stood out better as yellow blended in, hence in the states they have regs in some states about hunters wearing orange.

I personally have thought that the fleuro yellow was brightest but noticed the RN use a fluoro orange/pink for their survival suits and BR use Orange on railways... and yet I have a fluoro Yellow NATO emergency panel (shaped like a cross) and a NATO air marker panel (pictured) which is orange one side and yellow the other. So it's not so clear cut, it would appear it depends on light and terrain.

I reckon in low light that yellow would be better however, I would take a guess that it's down to contrast; if it looks "out of place", then it will be seen more easily.

 

[smoggy]

Totaly agree with you're reply. and the best bet is to use both or a combination of colours with straight lines.....and as mentioned above...on the diagonal can help too if you trying to be visible....

Reflectiveness and movement can also make things more visible too.....ie CD ROMs hanging in the wind...etc...

Smoggy.

 

[Gailainne]

To my eyes the yellow stands out way more, but I'm red and green colour blind, so that might skew it a bit . On contrasts I noticed that the newer emergency blankets have silver on one side and orange on the other, between those 2 I would have thought you could make yourself be seen.

BTW Hi Vis vests at my refinery are mostly yellow, with reflective panels, but Ihave seen orange.

Stephen

 

[Sniper]

I'm not sure here if my info is still current but I remember some testing group or other tried to find the best colours for hazard warnings and they found that orange worked better in lower light conditions and yellow for higher light conditions, IIRC that's why BR used the orange colour as they mostly worked on the network at night whereas emergency services went for yellow as mostly used during daylight hours. I might be a bit out of date with this though, it was some years ago when this took place.

 

[johnnytheboy]

I seen a very similar test underwater in research about fishing lures, not conected to your test woodsmoke but i thought i would post it anyway as it interested me.

http://www.esoxhunter.com/ColorsInWater.php

 

[wicca]

I think you're correct sniper, I recall hearing something similar. As a matter of interest, Police cars in Sussex which years ago had a red/orange stripe round them are now yellow and blue squares. Ambulances too are that bright yellow colour down this way. I have a feeling the Road Transport Research Laboratory did the tests and as a result Sussex emergency vehicles changed to the bright yellow. But that of course may only apply to visibility against a street/road background. Emergency equipment at sea is still produced in 'distress orange'.

 

[nige7whit]

If you want to get scientific, and allow me to diverge for a moment.....

Clay pigeon shooters often wear shooting glasses that are red/pink (Vermillion is the technical term). In optical terms, a filter will pass light of it's own wavelength, and block everything else, but filters aren't perfect, so some other light makes it through as well.

The red glasses make an orange /dusky pink clay pigeon positively 'glow' against the green or brown background, I have tried this, and it's true.

Looking at colour http://www.paintquality.com.au/Press/newspaper/images/ColourWheel.jpg
You can see that red is opposite green (contrast), while yellow is close to green (complimentary). We know that contrast helps visibility?
I can't actually remember what the question was ?!!?

 

[SimonM]

I have a reflective, hi viz strap on the back of my rucksac all the time.

I think it was for runners as it is elasticated, with velcro closure - looks designed to go around an arm or similar in size.

Handy piece of kit IMHO & definately stands out as you can see it glinting in the photo of my camp...

Simon

 

[nige7whit]

For work I often wear vests like that. Yellow is brighter than orange you could say, but orange is more 'out of place' in the woods. I would vote for orange

Orange is the colour of choice for the Railways, without exeption.

 

[Tengu]

It always has been even before Hi viz became common.

a track man would be invisible in yellow

 

[Opal]

Don't think there's any chance of being run over by a train in the woods....
yellow stands out by a mile.

 

[EdS]

I think you're correct sniper, I recall hearing something similar. As a matter of interest, Police cars in Sussex which years ago had a red/orange stripe round them are now yellow and blue squares. Ambulances too are that bright yellow colour down this way. I have a feeling the Road Transport Research Laboratory did the tests and as a result Sussex emergency vehicles changed to the bright yellow. But that of course may only apply to visibility against a street/road background. Emergency equipment at sea is still produced in 'distress orange'.

Re: emergency vehicles - the colour used is the colours approved by the home office for various organisations for use on the sides:

Police - relective yellow & blue batenburg (large blocks normally now)
Fire - reflecticve yellow and red batenburg
Ambulance/paramedic - reflecticve yellow and green large battenburg
Coast guard - yellow, non reflective dark blue, small "batenburg"
Mountain/Cave Rescue - orange & white batenburg
bomb disposal - usually hi viz yellow & blue strip, depends on where from
RNLI - yellow strip with green edging.
Blood service - yellwo and organce relfective batenburg

And if you see something with no wrting and a plain blue reflective strip start to panic as it is Nuclear incident vehicle run by the Navy for the MOD

These are been phased in so there is still a mix out there.


As for hi viz in woods - I've done searches in lime dominated woodlands in spring and the hi viz yellow is almost impossible to see (organce would be better) but on the moors yellow wins.

There wasa move after the 7/7 bombings to keep yeloow hi hiz to emegency services only, everyone else using orange. Problems where caused by all the builders etc rushing to help (good on the them) resulting in so many people in hi viz it was hard to tell who was who.

 

[sam_acw]

What about NATO blue? I remember reading that it is actually pretty high visibility.

 

[Steve13]

I have a reflective, hi viz strap on the back of my rucksac all the time.

I think it was for runners as it is elasticated, with velcro closure - looks designed to go around an arm or similar in size.

Handy piece of kit IMHO & definately stands out as you can see it glinting in the photo of my camp...

Simon

Interesting tarp set up Simon what size tarp is that ?