Help with a Desert Smock

[Badger74]

I've just been to Johnsons of Leeds and bought a desert DPM 'Smock Combat Camouflage Windproof'.

I was looking for help to ID the period from any ex forces types, as my googlfu is not helping me.


Desert Windproof Smock by chrstphrferg, on Flickr

It has 4 straight bellows pockets on the front, a small pocket on each arm, small no wired hood, a single inside pocket and a poachers pocket inside the rear. There is another label that says its 100% cotton. The buutons are bigger versions of the current slotted ones. It has pen marks on each arm, one of the marks is the old owners blood group, the other mark is GR52 94.

Any clues?

Thanks

 

[Wildgoose]

At a guess I'd say early 90s. the pattern is the 2 colour gulf war pattern. from 94 they had the zipped chest pockets, from 2005 they had a wired hood and union flag on the arm pocket (for ski locator apparently). The lack of rank slides suggest special issue, prior to the second gulf I'd only ever seen 1 example of a desert smock (94 patt).
In 95 the windproof, arctic and para smock all started to phase out in favour of the standard smock.
There were plenty of private purchase smocks made. None of my military kit has a label with the material type.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

Usually, be cautious of any later British gear that has the material type listed. They don't generally need he squaddies burdened with any more info than is ness. So a label that says 100% cotton would be a immediate red flag to me, also the label doesn't look right either. However, all the features you describe fit the description of an early 1990 s SAS smock, very rare from that period in desert. If its genuine and in good condition I'd get it for collectors purposes.

 

[Wildgoose]

I wasn't sure about the label either, which is why I thought private purchase. Not sure what 'CG' means. Don't have smock of that era to compare. The modern one has loads of laundry info. When did 'mans' disappear from the labels?

 

[screwdriver]

cg means combat dress,based on the nsn number this smock is a 90,s issue dessie windproof and if it has internal pockets then probably a dessie version of the sas windproof smock and very rare.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

I've got a feeling that the commercial products use cg is used instead of nsn or similar. The MOD like to get plenty on the label is all, the label looks nice and spaced out if you get me, and the font doesn't look like the types I have, I have 2 from early 90s and Im slightly iffy that the label looks a little too neat and tidy, the cloth labels fade out and with some washing wouldn't be that clear I feel. The plastic labels o all bitty looking with use? Also, of that period, it could well be made up in country with desert Dpm cloth and may well not have ever had a label at all. Silvermans are a good example of a company producing an identicle item in desert print, green Dpm and black. It's virtually indistinguishable from a genuine item as it comes of the same production lines. Survival aids used to do them too, as did sass, but the labels all look virtually the same.
Im sure the labels always have the washing instructions for machine temps and similar on them too.

 

[Badger74]

Thanks for all your replies.

The cotton label has the washing instructions on the other side and does look a bit worn.

It did have a Union flag and velcro patches retro stitched on both arms and the left arm pocket was unusable because of this, not now, i've unpicked them. There was signs of something having been stitched in the same place as where the rank slides now go.

Rabbitsmacker, what are the buttons like on your early 90's smocks?

I did buy it with the intention of dying it brown, and with that in mind i've unstitched the main label, because it would have dyed it and become blank as thats cotton as well. (I did the exact same on a 90 Pattern DPM jacket and lost the label information as that was cotton too.) I was going to put it back on after.

I'm interested in anymore views, so i'll put the dying on hold for the moment.

 

[Wildgoose]

Good point on the buttons, I didn't see the slotted ones until the mid 90s. The windproof had normal buttons, and it was considered ally to put sniper tape on them to stop shine.
Would be interested to see how it turns out if you do dye it. Been after a plain brown or plain green smock for a while.

 

[Badger74]

Well, after some of the comments saying it might be a rare item, I didn't dive right in and dye it this afternoon. I'll wait a bit longer.

My buttons are a cream/sandy colour where as the newer models are brown.

 

[Badger74]

Came across this http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t6544-sas-smock

I'm unable to see his front picture, but the hood construction is exactly the same as mine.

But found this as well http://oefoif.forumotion.net/t1958-sas-windproof-smock

Same as mine except my velcro was two different sizes, and in different locations. Both the velcro and Union Flag was stitched using different coloured thread than when the smock was made and the flag and velcro on the left arm was sewn over the pocket.

 

[Wildgoose]

The smock on the first link is not genuine, despite what the seller says. There is no such thing as a sas smock, just a windproof. Label is a giveaway too, not stitched correctly and shiny.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

The SAS don't brand their kit, used to have it stamped on their bergens but that's like a foam finger pointing at you for the enemy to identify you as being worth extra attention from the interogators. The smock in the first link looks like a genuine last variant before going over to mtp, ive just sold several and they have the plastic labels like that but stitched flat inside the back, not swinging free like that with info on both sides, You can still get them thru the system apparently, but the label is all wrong unless it's come from a private supplier like those I mentioned above. The desert one in the links is a mid 2000s issue, commercially made type I reckon. The Dpm desert print used is half way between standard issue desert and the first pattern ghost Dpm from early 1990s. It's a little bright and could be a copy, but I'm not sure.

The buttons on early 1990s windproof smocks lazily know as SAS smocks are big arctic buttons stitched on thru 4 holes per button. The windproof smock that is on issue now is actually a poly cotton smock based on a jacket not a windproof smock as per original SAS marine type. You can tell as it has seams on the shoulders, the cotton windproofs don't have seems on the shoulders and have a poachers pocket and no chest pocket zips. The cut is looser on the SAS type, however all the features of the modern type in either standard or modified mk 2 offer superior weather protection and durability.

 

[Badger74]

Well I found an ebay seller with a few for sale so it can't be that rare. Have took the plunge and dyed it. The smock is cotton but the thread is polyester, so its now brown with cream stitching

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

HaVe had that happen with some Dessie trousers, though they were poly cotton, the trousers went browny purple showing the Dpm thru, and the polyester stitching didn't dye and looked like a check pattern thru the fabric.

I doubt dying it again will help the stitching but it could be worth a go? Wouldn't worry too much, as long as the main smock has taken well I'd be happy with that, bloody good design of smock, never bettered for comfort, enjoy it!

 

[Badger74]

The main body has taken very well, the buttons and zip are cream and stand out more. I was going to get some polyester dye and try that as well.

Whilst I was ohhing and ahhing, i ended up winning a newer smock on ebay as well, thats 13 various coats, smocks and jackets now

 

[Badger74]

This is how it ended up


Desert Windproof Smock by chrstphrferg, on Flickr

I'm not sure about the buttons and the zip though.

 

[spandit]

That's a good colour - what dye did you use?

 

[Badger74]

It was Dylon, Dark Brown, but the smock is 100% cotton.

The wife has just seen it, and apart from giving me the evil eye over 'another coat', she says, the buttons and zip look fine.

Pheww

 

[Wildgoose]

Looks good! Looks like a vintage smock.

 

[screwdriver]

tried this with a newer cotton dessie smock and the irr coating stopped the dye from taking, now trying to work out how to remove the coating.