Heavy rain tarp and fire question

[Suffolkrafter]

Hi all. Imagine you're setting up a tarp shelter for the night under heavy rain and cold conditions. Do you a) go for a more 'closed' tarp pitch leaving the fire exposed to the elements or b) go for an open pitch e.g. plough point, which allows positioning a smal fire such that the tarp can keep the worst of the rain off it? In other words how much priority to you give to sheltering the fire?

An obscure question I know, but still, I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts an opinions.
Cheers.

 

[The Frightful]

Hi all. Imagine you're setting up a tarp shelter for the night under heavy rain and cold conditions. Do you a) go for a more 'closed' tarp pitch leaving the fire exposed to the elements or b) go for an open pitch e.g. plough point, which allows positioning a smal fire such that the tarp can keep the worst of the rain off it? In other words how much priority to you give to sheltering the fire?

An obscure question I know, but still, I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts an opinions.
Cheers.

Can't help but hopefully you make the right choice its a proper moody evening!

 

[Woody girl]

Me? I'd go home and snuggle up under my down duvet with a nice cup of hot chocolate and stare into my woodburner while smugly listening to the wind and rain.
If I can't get home I'd make a more closed in tarp, and make sure my kit keeps dry, firewood etc for the morning would be in the shelter with me ready for the morning.
I have only once had a plowpoint (my favourite set up) ripped away with a huge gust of wind in the early hours. It was not much fun trying to wrestle a tarp in windy wet conditions with my sleeping bag and pj's getting wet! I learned the hard way!
In those sort of conditions definatly a tarp tent configuration . It sheds wind much better.

 

[C_Claycomb]

If I were to have a fire, I would not leave it out in the rain. Whether I attempted to have a fire in the first place would depend on a number of factors; availability of fuel, length of day remaining, how cold/wet I had become and what clothing and sleep gear I had.

If I had a fire, I would want to be able to squat near it to tend it and benefit from the heat without being sat out in direct rain. If everything is wet, and its cold, a small fire is likely to need all the help it can get to give off useful heat. If the tarp is so far from the fire that it can't shelter it, the fire isn't going to do much to heat the area under the tarp. If it is raining and the fire isn't sheltered, you won't be able to dry anything stood in the rain next to the fire.

If the light is failing and fuel isn't lying around in abundance, you can get into more difficulties stomping around trying to find fuel, then trying to get a fire going, than you would if you just battened down the hatches and stripped off wet gear and got into your sleeping kit, cooked on a little stove and got hot food into you.

I remember a story of a chap who overturned his canoe in Canada, bitter weather. He got himself out but knew he had just minutes before he would become too cold to function. He set fire to one of the massive log jams piled up on the side of the river, stripped naked and roasted alternate sides of himself while drying his clothes next to the roaring inferno. Lots of fuel, very wet, very cold, no dry gear to fall back on.

 

[Le Loup]

Hi all. Imagine you're setting up a tarp shelter for the night under heavy rain and cold conditions. Do you a) go for a more 'closed' tarp pitch leaving the fire exposed to the elements or b) go for an open pitch e.g. plough point, which allows positioning a smal fire such that the tarp can keep the worst of the rain off it? In other words how much priority to you give to sheltering the fire?

An obscure question I know, but still, I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts an opinions.
Cheers.

If it is raining, it is rarely cold enough to warrant a fire, but I do like to have a fire for hot drinks & cooking food. I do not shelter my fire, & get it going & get some heaver wood burning in the hope that it will keep going, but if the rain puts it out, I don't worry about it. My first priority is to get that shelter up & get under its cover.
I store extra kindling at the back of my shelter, & also pile firewood outside at the head of my bed within easy reach. That way I do not need to leave the cover of my shelter through the night.

Keith.

 

[Erbswurst]

It depends on the situation.

With enough modern equipment I just disappear into my bivvy bag and eat some nuts or even lazier: I sleep.

With old school equipment or in a survival situation I perhaps would try to defend the fire. An own little wooden lean to shelter for the fire often works well. Before it burns I put the next layer on it.

But off course if the rain becomes really heavy it doesn't work any more.

 

[Billy-o]

With a tarp? I think I'd prioritize trying to get off the ground if I could - I mean if it is hammering down like and isnt going to stop for a while

 

[Suffolkrafter]

Wow some very detailed answers. That's given me loads to think about. I think this is what I had forgotten:

it is raining, it is rarely cold enough to warrant a fire,

I've seen many great YouTube videos from the likes of swedwoods and far north bushcraft in which they use a fire for warmth to last the night. But of course it's not raining in these videos.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Suffolkrafter,
Have you watched anything about the guys using modern tipi tents coupled with ultra light wood stoves for hot-tenting in cold, wet conditions? They are often hunters rather than hikers, so somewhat different priorities, and they are out at a different time of year and are not out there to enjoy hiking through the scenery. They often describe the stove as a game changer for its ability to dry wet clothing and gear.

I think that application is more in line with what you described originally, than the use of fire in dry snowy cold. Harder to do though in an open tarp shelter with an open fire.

 

[TLM]

If it is raining (liquid water) I think it is more important to keep yourself dry than lighting a fire. If your insulating clothing is dry and your sleeping bag is dry you'll survive most things over 0 C.

In below -5 C having a large enough fire and a leanto is very traditional camping here, no problem.

If you are wet in difficult weather you just light a big enough fire.

 

[Philster]

Something we started doing last winter was to take an additional small cheap tarp (nasty poundshop thing) and set that up over the fire. That way your main tarp can be set up to keep the wind and rain off you the best and the fire can be set somewhere appropriate (depending on wind and how cold it is) and still be covered from the worst of the rain. We even set it up higher one time so we could cook over the fire and keep dry.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

Philster that's a great idea having a small second tarp.

Have you watched anything about the guys using modern tipi tents coupled with ultra light wood stoves for hot-tenting in cold, wet condition

Yep I've seen those. I think I've even seen a stove tent of sorts in the Go Outdoors store. We had an extremely wet family camping trip last weekend. Had an awning rigged up with a 3x3 DD tarp but it just wasn't worth lighting a fire, was howling a gale. Which goes back to what others have said - sometimes it's probably better to just batten down the hatches. A stove tent seemed like a great idea at that point.

 

[TLM]

A small wood stove in a military tent is good to as low a temp as you want -45 C no problem, I have slept well in -35 C.

There is a local kind of leanto model that in days gone by was often used in very cold weather with a fire, google pictures with "loue" that is a a very old word for "seagull" but otherwise I have no idea how to translate it.

 

[Erbswurst]

@TLM
Would you please set a link to a picture of that shelter?
I only find a French river.

 

[TLM]

Google pictures.

 

[woodspirits]

I recently had a similar situation, it really depends on the size of your tarp and the height it is set. Too small and you will struggle to shelter the fire effectively and protect your fuel pile.

 

[Herman30]

@TLM
Would you please set a link to a picture of that shelter?
I only find a French river.

Loue.

 

[TLM]

Thx, and that pic shows one of the possible ways of setting it up.

 

[Erbswurst]

Google pictures shows green ones too.

Obviously a 1/3 Lavvu.

German boy scouts use portable cotton Lavvus.

They are pretty heavy but can be carried well by 4 persons, because it's put together from 4 tent sheets.

(I also know couples who use it. They simply let all the unnecessary additional stuff at home which other people usually carry around. That works too.)

That is in my opinion the best option for a small group in the woods. They exist in two sizes, 4 to 6 persons and 4 to 8 persons, offered and made by Tortuga.

You simply ignite a well sized camp fire in it, like it was done before everywhere.

We call these tents "Kohte".

 

[TLM]

Obviously a 1/3 Lavvu.

Question of terminology as the names of Sami and other northern people's dwellings mean different things from one language to the other. WP article on "lavvu" explains some of the difficulties. What most people here are used to call "lavvu" would be "kota" in my vocabulary and the Finnish equivalent of "lavvu" is "laavu" which mostly means a leanto. Clear as mud.

But I don't think loue is of the same origin as "lavvu". It can be set up by one pole as in the pic or A-frame, these two ways are for calm weather. For windier conditions it is set up with one rope from the top to front-up to a tree or branch. While two can be set against each other I have never seen it done as this is a very temporary setup and to be used with open fire at front. It was used by hunters and reindeer herders when far enough from home.