Gundog Training.

[Dave]

There is a lot of information on the web regarding the subject, but I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Had our 7 month old lab out for his first lesson on saturday, retreiving a few canvas dummies.

I do think that I could do quite a lot of the training myself. I will attend some courses as well, but have mixed feelings about it.

I believe in investing money back into a sport if youre gonna stick with it, but at the same time, even the accredited trainers i've talked to say the training should be cheaper. [The gundog society set the rates, not the trainers]

Is it something you've done with your dog?

Is there a single book you recommend over others?

How did you get invited to your first shoot, to give him a chance to pick up?

 

[johnnytheboy]

Dave I do allot of shooting but don't have a dog, one thing is for sure shoots are calling out for dogs! It won't be hard to get involved!

There is is a huge difference in shoots from small DIY syndicates to full driven commercial days, would be easier to start at the smaller shoots whilst perfecting the training!

 

[Dave]

Cheers Johny.

 

[EdS]

are you wanting to flush or retrieve?

 

[Dave]

He's a retriever Ed, so probably retrieve. Although, its all new to me.
Whats your involvement? Do you shoot or have your own dog which picks up etc?

 

[johnnytheboy]

You could get along to a shoot day as a beater without a dog and see what's going on, it will get you some local contacts to start with! Look at guns on pegs for shoots local to you!

 

[EdS]

I beat and take the g/f's older springer with me - she flushes but is pretty good at retrieving to. Her pup had a few pheasant half days last year when he was about 10 months old.

Are you looking for pheasant or grouse days?

 

[Dave]

I dont know Ed. Trainer mentioned pheasant, but someone else mentioned what your dog retrieves normally depends on where you live. She said that if youre a bit further east yorkshire, its a bit easier to get into wildfowling. I've seen them stood in fields then sending the dog out to pick up pheasants, on youtube, but also seen them shooting grouse on a local moor, where theres 3 or 4 labs, flushing grouse, and 3 or 4 blokes, wandering behind them with shotguns.

TBH I dont know where this will take me. Could end up shooting myself, or just picking up. Dont really know.

I have heard that the shooting is very expensive though. Like £700 to £2k per day.

If you wanted to get into the shooting, is grouse or wildfowling cheaper than pheasant, or is it all expensive?

 

[British Red]

Dave,

If you want to dress up in tweeds and have a silver service lunch Dave then yes you can spend that - or on a family shoot or syndicate it can be almost nothing - depends how smart you want it to be and how much of your own beating, releasing, and rearing you want to do.

Wildfowling is very cheap round here - but we are on the fens - less than £100 a year to join some groups. Pigeon shooting is generally free or even get your cartridges paid for same with some rough and vermin work.

Look into NOBs - they specialise in hooking up beaters and pickers up

http://www.nobs.org.uk/

If I can help or advise, say the word (don't know much about dog training though - sorry)

 

[santaman2000]

Ya'll use labs on land birds?

 

[Buckshot]

My old lab (now sadly gone to chase pheasants in the sky) was trained as a gundog for my game keeping duties. It keeps the dogs mind active as well as the body fit.
He was an all rounder, flushing and retrieving.
In truth most gundogs are all rounders nowadays. Traditionally spaniels would flush and labs retrieve and that still happens if you can afford to have different dogs for different tasks and can warrant the time investment too.
There's no reason why you can't train your dog rather than send it away to a professional - most people do. The only problem is the results are variable. I've seen professionally trained dogs that the owner has no idea how to handle, own schooled dogs where the owner only has to look at the dog and it knows what to do and everything in between.
Go to a shoot to suss the lie of the land but before you take your dog along make sure they are aware of the level of training. As has been said shoots are crying out for dogs but only if they're well trained! A badly trained dog will be invited not to return or to be kept on a lead in very short order.
Most of all, do something that both you and the dog enjoy.

And yes, Santaman, labs are one of the most common dogs for inland use here in the UK, spaniels (normally English Springer) being the other.

 

[Dave]

Dave,

If you want to dress up in tweeds and have a silver service lunch Dave then yes you can spend that - or on a family shoot or syndicate it can be almost nothing - depends how smart you want it to be and how much of your own beating, releasing, and rearing you want to do.

Wildfowling is very cheap round here - but we are on the fens - less than £100 a year to join some groups. Pigeon shooting is generally free or even get your cartridges paid for same with some rough and vermin work.

Look into NOBs - they specialise in hooking up beaters and pickers up

http://www.nobs.org.uk/

If I can help or advise, say the word (don't know much about dog training though - sorry)

Ok Thanks Red. But you do have dogs picking up wildfowl for you in the clubs or syndicates you are part of? Thanks for the link.

My old lab (now sadly gone to chase pheasants in the sky) was trained as a gundog for my game keeping duties. It keeps the dogs mind active as well as the body fit.
He was an all rounder, flushing and retrieving.
In truth most gundogs are all rounders nowadays. Traditionally spaniels would flush and labs retrieve and that still happens if you can afford to have different dogs for different tasks and can warrant the time investment too.
There's no reason why you can't train your dog rather than send it away to a professional - most people do. The only problem is the results are variable. I've seen professionally trained dogs that the owner has no idea how to handle, own schooled dogs where the owner only has to look at the dog and it knows what to do and everything in between.
Go to a shoot to suss the lie of the land but before you take your dog along make sure they are aware of the level of training. As has been said shoots are crying out for dogs but only if they're well trained! A badly trained dog will be invited not to return or to be kept on a lead in very short order.
Most of all, do something that both you and the dog enjoy.

And yes, Santaman, labs are one of the most common dogs for inland use here in the UK, spaniels (normally English Springer) being the other.

Cheers Buckshot. Thats what I thought. Theyre all rounders. A fishing mate, has a mate who is the local gamekeeper. I'll have to get in touch with him.

Humph! I thought there'd be more on here who had trained their own gundogs!

 

[British Red]

Not many use dogs for wildfowling here - too dodgy in the Fens - you lose dogs! Lots of pigeon shooters use retrievers though

 

[BILLy]

Hi
Be patient,
I have a welsh working cocker, one of the hardest gun dogs to train IMO, he is used for flushing the game for the guns, the puppy/dog needs absolutely loads and loads of time to train, I mean 3,4-7 times a day, each no more than 10 mins a session, as like babies puppies/dogs have a very short concentration span, and to much time spent trying to get something right will only get worse, short simple sessions, have an agenda of what needs to be trained first, discipline, heal, stay, come back, steadiness, find out what whistle commands most people use and use them, different dogs for different shooting, picking up, beating/flushing, etc but like others have said people want dogs to do everything these days and that's the problem of having a fair dog and a good dog, do plenty of research into what you want to do first, be very very patient and get a good bond / friendship with your dog, it's worth doing a search for local game keepers who will know of all the local shooting syndicates and can point you in the direction, try getting on a few as a dogger in to give your dog experience of live game first, they always want people to dog the birds back to their roosts.
Any more specific info you want just keep asking here and replies will come,
Be patient
Good luck
Bill

 

[mereside]

Dave you should be able to do all the training yourself, get an acme whistle,and train to that whilst doing obediance.
how is the obedience? get that nailed down so it stops sits and waits everytime then you can move on.
dont let the dog retrieve all the dummys make sure he sits and waits whilst you go and retrieve some yourself make sure they bring to hand if they drop it step back with your hand out ,lots of praise and don't overdo it go slowly otherwise you will spoil him.
just keep it fun and when he will sit wait retrieve the dummy without running in you can start to introduce cold birds. i tied wings to the dummy at first to get mine used to them then when thats sorted use a full bird but make sure its cold and use a stocking especially if using pigeon otherwise they get gobfulls of feather and start spitting this can put them off so a cold bird wrapped makes it easy and once that is nailed you can use a fresh bird but this is again done over time if you rush things you end up with problems.
again keep it fun and short sessions, i have always been told that training before they feed gives maximum concentration Stay away from live birds till everything is rock solid or you will end up with a dog not listening and you will not be asked back if you find a shoot, but to correct things later is very hard work ,slowly slowly catch a monkey.
where abouts are you dave?.
lastly don't shout at the dog when things don't work just be prepared to take a backwards step before going forward.
pigeonwatch dog section has good info on different steps for training , my opinion is form the bond with the dog and you can get him to do what you want with patience going to someone else is easier but do you have that bond and he will want to please you,good luck , wayne

 

[Bluebs4]

Not sure where you are and if this helps


http://www.wwt.org.uk/visit/slimbridge/whats-on/2013/10/01/decoy-demonstrations/

 

[santaman2000]

Not many use dogs for wildfowling here - too dodgy in the Fens - you lose dogs! Lots of pigeon shooters use retrievers though

In Florida we lose a few (very few) to gators. But generally a lab is a water dog with dove shooting being the possible exception.

 

[santaman2000]

.....And yes, Santaman, labs are one of the most common dogs for inland use here in the UK, spaniels (normally English Springer) being the other.

So you don't like the more traditional bird dog breeds; setters and pointers? I know you more often than not use beaters but does nobody actually hunt their birds the old fashioned way? (let the dog find it, point it, and hold while the shooter moves in to flush and shoot it, then retrieve it?)

 

[Bowlander]

Not many use dogs for wildfowling here - too dodgy in the Fens - you lose dogs! Lots of pigeon shooters use retrievers though

How do you retrieve the shot birds then?

I've shot on the Wash, the Ouse washes Tweed estuary and Lindisfarne and always took a dog.



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[johnnytheboy]

In Florida we lose a few (very few) to gators. But generally a lab is a water dog with dove shooting being the possible exception.

That would certainly add something interesting to a pheasant day, driven gator shoot, wouldn't like to be a beater though!

To to give you some real prices for the working man
DIY syndicate, £300 for 10 shoots per year, requires a wee bit DIY gamekeeper to keep costs down
Walk on stand one 50 bird day £120
Fully driven 100 bird day £300

Obviously prices go only one way from there!

My wildfowling costs me my BASC membership just to make sure I have insurance, wildfowling is generally free in Scotland.