Granite ...as an anvil ?

[katana]

Hi everyone, excellent forum.

I am in the process of making a small forge and would like to use granite as an anvil. The main reason is AFAIK the noise level is less than using steel.....
I have to think of the neighbours

Has anyone any experience of using granite.....I was wondering as to the thickness required and a possible source of suitable sized granite (which would be mounted on a large block of well seasoned wood) The largest item I am looking at making is a machete.....possibly to scare off the neighbours who complain about the 'banging'

Thankyou for any suggestions or information....

 

[Marijn]

I've read about some guy using a headstone as an anvil.

Might ask the caretaker of a cemetery

 

[weaver]

Take a half meter section of 20 cm round bar and bury it all but 20 cm in damp sand. The sand will absorb the ringing sound.

I really don't think granite will last very long with you banging on it.

 

[Mike Ameling]

I made up the tools and have done some demo's of a Viking era blacksmith shop. I used a large wedge shaped granite rock for a large anvil, along with several stake/stump anvils I made up - all based on original artifacts.

The granite rock I use is almost 8 inches thick - in the shape of a piece of pie or cheese. It has held up well for small projects. The main thing to remember is to always have your iron piece at "red" heat or hotter when you are hammering it on the granite anvil. That makes the iron softer than the rock. If the piece you are working on has no color, it will be harder than the granite, and will start to wear away the rock surface. Plus, don't hit the rock with your hammer.

Another thing to remember is that all that pounding on the granite will create "stress" within the crystal structure of the rock. Over time this can lead to cracks and breaks.

And the surface of the granite will not be as smooth as an anvil - especially after some use. It will leave a rougher finish on the items you are working on.

It is also a "dead" anvil - little or no rebound. It absorbs most of your hammer blow. So it will wear out your arm much faster than a regular anvil.

As to noise levels: Not all anvils RING. Some have little or no ring, but are still excellent anvils. And some ring just like a church bell. So you have to judge each anvil separately. How you mount your anvil on a stump, box, or bench also affects how much noise it gives off in use. I have a rubber pad underneath my main anvil - to dull the noise a little. I also have a large magnet on the side - to do the same thing. Some blacksmiths don't use a stump, but instead build a tall tapered box for a stand, and then fill it with sand. Their anvil sets right down onto the sand. This controls the noise better for them, and makes a pretty heavy base.

Just remember, if you hit one piece of iron/steel with another, it will make noise. Sometimes just a little, sometimes a lot. So the noise level can be controlled a little bit, but not eliminated.

A machete is no small project to forge up. You will need a long flat surface on your "anvil" to forge/bevel/straighten a machete blade, and a very good knowledge of heat-treating to create a blade that is safe to use. It will truely be a "learning experience" for you. Good luck.

Just my humble thoughts to share.

Mike Ameling

 

[cyclist]

I have to think of the neighbours

IMHO first you´d better think of your eyes - never hammer on stone without body protection ....

 

[ESpy]

Wayne Goddard's "$50 Knife Shop" has a chunk on using granite as an anvil too.

 

[Dave Budd]

As part of my teaching forge kit I have a variety of archaeologically correct tools, including a stone anvil. Mine is a piece of granite that has been roughed into a rectangle about a 12"x6"4" it's a great anvil as long as you don't bounce off it too hard, or it chips! As do teh edges if you hit em. it's mounted on a log using a wooden frame/brackets.

Alot of Kenyan smiths use large boulders with a flat spot pecked into the centre. The stone is normally set into the ground a bit and the smith works on his knees or squatting.

Unless you really want to use a stone anvil, try and find a lump of steel

 

[katana]

Thankyou all for your replies :You_Rock_ or should that be 'You Granite'
One of the reasons of using granite is to try some 'experimental archeology' as I collect ethnographic weapons (mainly african). Dave Budd you hit the 'nail on the head' when you mentioned Kenya
Noise is certainly an issue and I really appreciate the other solutions that have been suggested. I think I will try both 'types' of anvil.
For the granite, I was thinking of a piece with a working surface that was polished, rectangular ( say 4" x 18") , about 6"-9" thick. I think if the edges of the 'top' where chamfered it could help to prevent the edges chipping.... but not certain. I am also wondering whether putting the granite anvil on a sand 'bed' may help to prevent the possible stress fractures that could happen.
Thankyou Mike for the additional info, it has been very helpful

 

[demographic]

I gave a mate a length of 110 Lb per yard railway track.

That way he has it in his shed and I can use it whenever I want anyway, I find the noise bothers me less that way
I am going to help him build a forge at some point.

I also had a 250 motocrosser that I couldn't be bothered repairing as I have enough bikes, gave it to him and he repaired it so now I can ride that whenever I want also.

Always look a gifthorse in the mouth

 

[Dave Budd]

Katana, A book that you may have come across already, but if not it's well worth looking at:

Brown, J. 1995. Traditional Metalworking in Kenya. Oxbow Monograph 44, Cambridge Monographs in African Archaeology 38.

I came across it while I was readin an MA in Experimental Archaeology at Exeter Uni. I specialised in pre-industrial ferrous metallurgy and early iron working.

btw, to be picky, having a play with a ethnographic (or archaeological) kit is experiential archaeology. It only becomes experimental if you have hypothesis that requires study through scientific experiment, thus is repeatable and recorded

 

[katana]

Hi Demographic, interesting idea ....solving my 'noise' problem with some 'lateral' thinking.... would certainly keep MY neighbours happy .....not so certain about my mate's

Thankyou Dave, for increasing my vocabulary ( experimental / experiential )
I haven't read the reference you posted, will try and get hold of it...sounds very interesting ..... I think you made a mistake telling me that you specialized in pre-industrial ferrous metallurgy and early iron working. Now, I'll expect you to 'share' your knowledge...when I get problems with my experiential exploits

 

[Mike Ameling]

My friend, you have wandered into DANGEROUS TERRITORY!

Blacksmithing is ADDICTIVE!!!!! As are Old Tools and Skills! When you combine the two, you are soon lost to the Modern World, my friend! There is no going back!

Enough of the frivolous warnings.

A very good book you will probably want to find is called: THE MASTERMYR FIND - A Viking Age Tool Chest from Gotland by Greta Arwidsson and Bsta Berg ISBN 0-9650755-1-6. The Tool Chest is dated from around 1000 to 1100 a.d. It contains both blacksmithing and woodworking tools, some scraps of iron, and some pieces in the process of being repaired. All the items viewed as a whole seems to indicate that these were the tools of a traveling smith - who would go from place to place, and the make/repair things on site. Sort of a traveling tinker. Hammers, tongs, chisels, stump/stake anvils, files, saws, spoon drills, nail headers, etc. The book goes through the history of the find, catalogs the items found, shows good pictures of each item, and then has a very good drawing of each item.

The members of ABANA (Artist-Blacksmith Association of North America) reproduced the chest and the tools for their 2002 Conference, and have it as a traveling teaching display. They reproduced everything as it would have been when initially lost - working tools condition.

Remember, blacksmithing is ADDICTIVE!

Hi, I'm Mike, I'm a Blacksmith ... it's been 14 hours since my last session at the anvil and forge. Hi, Mike....... tell us your story.


p.s. Did I mention the Great Lakes Copper Culture items I made/reproduced for a national park? And then there's the camp/cooking items for the Viking reenactors, and some stuff for those Roman reenactors. Oh .... this addiction keeps spiraling out of control ....

 

[katana]

My friend, you have wandered into DANGEROUS TERRITORY!

Blacksmithing is ADDICTIVE!!!!! As are Old Tools and Skills! When you combine the two, you are soon lost to the Modern World, my friend! There is no going back!


Hi, I'm Mike, I'm a Blacksmith ... it's been 14 hours since my last session at the anvil and forge. Hi, Mike....... tell us your story.


p.s. Did I mention the Great Lakes Copper Culture items I made/reproduced for a national park? And then there's the camp/cooking items for the Viking reenactors, and some stuff for those Roman reenactors. Oh .... this addiction keeps spiraling out of control ....

Thanks....for the warning.......the 'guys with the straight-jackets and the medication' have been warned......and are on 'high alert'....