GPS & Wrong Maps.

[Goatboy]

Found this little story online and it backs up what I've been telling folks for years when selling GPS.

"An unnamed man was left cursing his luck, as well as his technology after he had to be rescued from a Welsh mountain because his electronic mapping device smashed, leaving him with only a paper map… of Scotland.
The man was preparing for a challenge walk in Snowdonia when he became stuck and had to be rescued by a member of the Ogwen Valley mountain rescue team.
A spokesman from the team responsible for the man’s rescue, Chris Lloyd, told the BBC that this wasn’t a one-off incident. He said: "We've had a couple of similar incidents over the past 10 days.
"One group was taking part in a Welsh 3,000ft peaks challenge and was again depending on GPS when their battery ran out and they were still on the mountain. That resulted in our team being called out at 11pm at night.”
His advice to future adventurers was simple: "People should have a paper map of the correct area, and by all means use the electronic equipment to check your co-ordinates, but don't depend on it because if you are out on the mountain for hours at a time batteries go flat."

GB.

 

[Teepee]

Couldn't agree more. Paper maps and compass first, then the gizmo's.

 

[Elen Sentier]

Nowt between the ears for most folks! How can you be so dumb as to not know your batteries will go flat or your device mught smash/break? And setting off with the wrong map ... don't you do a flight-check before you begin to walk ??? I love the mountain rescue teams but they should NOT have to be called out for this sort of thing! This article from Wayland's site says it too

:aargh4:

 

[Darwa]

I wonder why someone would take a map of Scotland on a trip to Wales.

 

[Joonsy]

There is a growing tendency amongst some people to not take responsibility for themselves and call out the rescue services at the drop of a hat often for non-emergency situations. One of the many thrills of being out in wild areas is being self-reliant. The old explorer Bill Tilman scorned any sort of intervention and refused to even carry flares on his ship strongly believing that you were responsible for your own actions and should not expect another person to risk their life to save your’s. ‘Responsibilty’ is becoming as old-fashioned as nailed boots.

 

[almac]

Couldn't agree more. Paper maps and compass first, then the gizmo's.

+1 agreed. IMO a person shouldn't be in the outdoors(in an unfamiliar place) without map & compass training.
Map & compass before GPS.

 

[Bowlander]

Hope he got sent the bill for the 'rescue'.

 

[Goatboy]

I wonder why someone would take a map of Scotland on a trip to Wales.

So he could dream, so he could dream...okenest:

 

[Toddy]

More and more people think of map and compass as kind of esoteric; much easier to use the sat nav. For a generation that grew up with mobile phones kind of permanently attached to them, it's not that surprising I suppose. I'm just waiting for the permanent bio-interface fad to kick off

Last time I posted a thread about something like this I got slated on the forum....guess folks are fed up with the numpties after all.

I hate the thought that some will refuse to call out for help out of some misplaced pride though. If in need, ask for help, just as you'd rather help someone else than see them in trouble.

atb,
M

 

[Elen Sentier]

More and more people think of map and compass as kind of esoteric; much easier to use the sat nav. For a generation that grew up with mobile phones kind of permanently attached to them, it's not that surprising I suppose. I'm just waiting for the permanent bio-interface fad to kick off ...

Saw summat about this - bio-interface - on Click recently !!! Gawd !!!

 

[Elen Sentier]

There is a growing tendency amongst some people to not take responsibility for themselves and call out the rescue services at the drop of a hat often for non-emergency situations. One of the many thrills of being out in wild areas is being self-reliant. The old explorer Bill Tilman scorned any sort of intervention and refused to even carry flares on his ship strongly believing that you were responsible for your own actions and should not expect another person to risk their life to save your’s. ‘Responsibilty’ is becoming as old-fashioned as nailed boots.

Rather like ER and the ambulance service being asked for aspirin, or their latest prescription of heroin-substitute, or called out because they've had 15 pints and can't afford a taxi home. All real events told me by friends in both services !!!

 

[jacko1066]

Rather like ER and the ambulance service being asked for aspirin, or their latest prescription of heroin-substitute, or called out because they've had 15 pints and can't afford a taxi home. All real events told me by friends in both services !!!

Iv got friends who are paramedics too elen, the best/worst story of this was that my mates dad who is a first responder in Cambridge, was working a Christmas Day shift, got called out to house by a mans wife saying that he was in extreme amounts of head pain, he turned up there and on the doorstep the wife asked him for some paracetamol as her husband had a rough night out on the booze. Gospel truth, he never actually saw the patient!! Just turned around and got back in his motor!!

 

[udamiano]

I have to agree with toddy on this.. People see SatNavs as easy to use, and thats the problem. For the most part Humans are lazy creatures, and certainly with information on demand,we have become spoilt and unwilling to take the longer route and learn to do it the 'harder way'.
Starting to Educate at an early age, and getting people into the right mind set, 'before' they go on these outings really is the only way to reduce these incidents I feel.

 

[BOD]

They should not be given a bill however stupid and ungrateful they are.

Why? Volunteer rescue groups should be encouraged and supported by their communities and to some extent by the local and national governments.

Why? To keep alive a sense that one should help ones fellow man and to keep rescue and related skills within communities not the state.

Why? Because relying on the state is unwise as it will be centralised, lack local knowledge compared to volunteers, inefficient (cost wise), and they will send every one the "bill' whether through taxes, compulsory insurance, certifications and so on.

 

[pastymuncher]

I'm honored to be allowed access to forum with so many perfect people.

I'll stay indoors until I have all my skills honed, before venturing into the wild, in case I make a mistake.

 

[Stew]

So how many people carry a back up paper map in case their primary one gets lost/damaged?

 

[SCOMAN]

People do need to take a bit more responsibility for their actions across the board. If the MR ever get called out for me I will likely be able to tell them where my heart stopped and where to pick me up;-). The phone thing is interesting though, speaking to a Coastguard rescue manager he told me they have a file of the most popular phones and what menu selection is needed to get a position readout from most smartphones.
I went out on Sat round some forest tracks no great Nav challenge but I stupidly left my map at home. I do have local OS maps on my iPhone and my route planned out on my watch (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111621). I was following signed tracks (hadn't realised they were before I got to the car park) so it was pretty low risk. I referred to the map frequently, I had adjusted the brightness to be the min required for the light condition nevertheless I could see the battery indicator decrease quite rapidly not one to be relied on for any length of time.
Nav training is fun though and can be quite challenging. I remember training on D'moor with a mate, he was going for his ML qualification so we went up to the north moor at night to make it hard and force step counting and compass accuracy. Always good/what a relief when it goes right and a brew always tastes better out at night.

 

[John Fenna]

So how many people carry a back up paper map in case their primary one gets lost/damaged?

I often carry a 1:50 000 as well as a 1:25 000 - not just as a back up but to give the wider picture and help understand the landforms in the bigger picture
I have only once damaged a map to the point of "unusable" but that was when a brand new map case failed - it still gave me enough to get back to a road safely though.
Even a sopping map can be usable if you are lucky - a sopping GPS ... I doubt it

 

[SCOMAN]

So how many people carry a back up paper map in case their primary one gets lost/damaged?

I doubt many do but then the purpose of the route card should be to contain enough info to get you home incl 'emergency' routes if you need to get off a hill earlier than planned. Good point though, wouldn't fancy the shopping bill.

 

[John Fenna]

They should not be given a bill however stupid and ungrateful they are.

Why? Volunteer rescue groups should be encouraged and supported by their communities and to some extent by the local and national governments.

Why? To keep alive a sense that one should help ones fellow man and to keep rescue and related skills within communities not the state.

Why? Because relying on the state is unwise as it will be centralised, lack local knowledge compared to volunteers, inefficient (cost wise), and they will send every one the "bill' whether through taxes, compulsory insurance, certifications and so on.

Very well said!