Glasses (i.e. spectacles) in Bushcraft

[Toadflax]

For my 100'th post I thought I'd try and start a discussion. As someone who has had to wear glasses since I was about 7 (look in my profile if you want to see how long that is!) I often wonder whether I would have survived very long in a 'bushcraft' situation if corrective lenses were not available - let's say Stone Age, which is what some bushcrafters are trying to simulate.

Apart from the obvious difficulties of surviving when everything more than a few feet in front of your face is blurred, what member of the opposite gender would want to breed with someone who couldn't see properly? Maybe there would have been some tasks that I could have done to make myself useful to the 'tribe', perhaps I might have been a good flint knapper, as that doesn't require long distance vision. Or maybe I would have just been left to die as a useless hindrance to everyone else.

And this leads on to my wondering whether we are gradually breeding a race of people with imperfect vision. Because corrective lenses are so readily available, defective vision is no longer a hindrance to 'getting a mate'. Even in my lifetime, this aspect of life has changed dramatically. I grew up with national health glasses - and what girl was going to fancy me when I was wearing those ugly things (can you see the chip on my shoulder!!!)?* Nowadays, elegant glasses are affordable by most people who need glasses and are even portrayed as a fashionable item to wear.

So I wonder, is defective vision on the increase? Or was it always there? Are there any bushcrafty ways to correct poor vision? Would there have been a role for someone with defective vision in the Stone Age?

I hope this stimulates some interesting discussion.



Geoff

*PS: I am happily married now with two nice children.

 

[Northern Giant UK]

Interesting topic,
There's no way to be sure what prehistoric human eyesight would have been like however I would imagine that due to genetic spread being what it is there would have been myopia back then and if my personal experience serves me the human brain/body does compensate (I have poor eyesight but my hearing is pretty impressive compared to the average) so they may have had other strengths.

Wearing glasses while trecking thru woodland is (IMHO) a good thing. . .just ask someone with perfect eyesight what it's like to have a branch whip back at them and catch them in the eye OUCH!!

I too had to suffer the jibes due to the NHS specs but I'm ok, I turned out to be a well balanced individual. . .I have chips on both shoulders


Kev

PS.
In my youth I often found that poor eyesight came in pretty handy (the morning after lol) .

 

[Boxy]

Hi Geoff,

Interesting question, although I can see more than a few feet with reasonable clarity, I too am a wearer of spectacles and have pondered on this one myself.

I suspect that badly defective eyesight means our ability to hunt effectively would be seriously compromised, whether that means we would be useless is another matter, as you say there are plenty of useful activities that don't require distance vision, but we would probably be relegated to a lowly status among primitive people.

I suspect that defective vision is on the increase, probably due to a combination of factors including poor diet, close work (computer screens can't be helpful and many people spend much of their working day under artificial light without the opportunity to look into the distance, and of course the fact that since we became 'civilised' these defective genetic traits have not been bred out!

As for whether a bushcraft remedt exists, I'll be following this thread to find out!

 

[Eric_Methven]

Although myopia will have existed in paleo times, I wonder just how widespread it would have been. Granted it's prolific nowadays, but so is other ailments brought on and exacerbated by a modern stressed out lifestyle. In the days of our ancient forebears, I doubt it would have been too much of a hinderance.

Imagine if you will, a family group within a clan. Most of the males go to hunt and defend the clan boundaries. Most of the women look after the children, the elders and prepare food and make clothing and gather firewood. Ulug however, doesn't go hunting with the other men because he doesn't see too well over distance. Rather than him becoming a burden on the group, he's special. The great spirits must have made him like that for a reason. So, whether Ulug has special skills or not, he knows within his heart that he better find something special he can do. Maybe he can knapp flint blades better than anyone else. Maybe it's because he spends a lot more time practicing knapping than anyone else. Maybe he has dreams and visions and Shamanism is his ticket to surviving within the clan structure.

Lets not forget that just because prehistoric man is dead, it doesn't mean he was stupid. Ulug's brother, young Olog doesn't have myopia, but he did get thrown over a cliff by a panicking stag a couple of years ago and smashed his femur. It didn't heal well at all and now he walks with a bad limp. He can't hunt any more, he can't defend the cln boundaries because he can't run. He's still useful though and he works within the camp area doing jobs that are neither men's work or women's work - jobs that would have been acceptable to both groups. On bad days when his leg plays up, he looks after the older children teaching them bushcraft skills and preparing them for the time they go through their initiation into adulthood. Ulug also teaches them, but he tells them tales of the ancestors and pases on the oral history of the clan.

Both brothers manage within the clan because they have found a niche. Who's to know if the myopic child who didn't show useful promise ever survived beyond infancy, probably not. So, a disability needn't be a death sentence, just as it is today. Both Ulug and Olog would still be potential mates to certain female members of the clan. Like females today, there are those who seek a mate for their inteligence, or artistic skills or intelect. There are also those who seek a mate for his physical prowess and leadership qualities. Horses for courses.

So Geoff, there's no reason why you'd be rejected by either society or a potential mate back then. You might not be the greatest hunter, you might not be able to see an enemy approach from a distance. You might however be the clan's greatest story teller and be the keeper of the history. You'd be the one they all listened to round the camp fire on special evenings.

The definition of defective vision is a modern concept, measurable by scientific means. Back in the stone age, glasses would have been an anathema to them. The concept wouldn't have existed and subsequently neither would the stigma. Provided you were not completely blind, all you'd be within the clan is someone who can't see far distance as much as others, but were good at something else.

Just my musings on this spring like night.

Eric

 

[Emma]

I always considered that if glasses didn't exist, I'd have attempted to become a jeweller. I can see detail easily that others have trouble with so I'd probably be good at manipulating delicate bits of materials.
I once mentioned that to someone else who is just as short-sighted as I am. He looked at me like I was crazy. I don't think he'd ever considered using an apparent disadvantage to his advantage.

 

[British Red]

There are plenty of tasks that could suit the myopic and I think Eric and Emma have picked up on it. In a strict "hunter gatherer" society, it could be a problem. But in a Bronze / Iron Age then smiths, leather workers, brewers etc. come into play - craftsmen and artisans - they could cope far better than a hunter sor sure

Red

 

[singteck]

Make your own glasses!

A small piece of coconut shell with lots of small holes drilled in it works.

singteck

 

[Goose]

Make your own glasses!

A small piece of coconut shell with lots of small holes drilled in it works.

singteck

Isn't that only for long sightedness though?

I think Erics take on it is fitting for lots of "disabilities", wether physical or mental, overall I think some of these disabilities have strengthened civilisation, to a degree that is not really taken in.
Different nowadays as everyone is expected to fit the "norm", in the past there have been lots of different boxes for people to fit into now we are all supposed to have the same interests and skills, otherwise you are a seen as a bit wierd.

 

[Matt Weir]

Good thread Geoff!

I myself am of the 4 eyed variety and am a ginger to boot :yikes: but have never had a dry spell when it comes to women (no - I'm not rich nor am I really Chris Evans on the sly ). I'm sure amoungst some ancients that flame haired Gods were all the rage

It makes sense as others have said that there would be a place for everyone and everyone had their place so poor sighted, hard of hearing and similar folk would probably have had their uses - sabre-tooth bait even who knows?

 

[BOD]

If you are myopic, presbyopia (long sightedness due to age) is delayed, so you would have been a useful artisan well into your old age unlike those tiresome old has-been hunters who bore the the clan with their tales of the mastodon that got away

 

[Boatswain]

This brings to light the question can you start a fire with a contact lens?

Cheers Roy

 

[RobertRogers]

Think of it this way:

What if your poor vision prevents you from going out to battle. So all the other young males in your tribe go out off war. None of them return.

Oh no! Now it is just you, 100 fertile women, and not enough time.

Darwinism works in mysterious ways.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Think of it this way, though:

What if your poor vision prevents you from going out to battle. So all the other young males in your tribe go out and do war. None of them return.

Oh no! Now it is just you, 100 fertile women, and not enough time.

Darwin works in mysterious ways.

And what if the mating ritual involves a game of hide and seek - and your eyesight is so poor that you can't find any of them!

Eric

 

[RobertRogers]

Doesn't matter - 'cause now you're the only game in town!

 

[ilan]

As stated those that are myopic wil have been usefull for those detailed fine work tasks making fish hooks sewing etc If you were long sighted Ie both near and far objects a blurr then you may have had a more limited use, but like a blind person today your other senses may compensate so you may have been able to hear prey or even sense or call to prey of course life expectancy will have been a lot less so arge related presbiopia will not have been a problem . Think its a bit of a myth being able to start a fire with most normal prescribed spectacles the exception beeing those ready made ones +3 focuses at about 33cms + 4 at 25 cms all soft contacts will be to floppy to give a clear point focus and the gas perm lenses to small to hold

 

[Carcajou Garou]

I think we are thinking this vision (problem) out too much. A bear has close vision and has been that way for ever, they still do well. Humans can also do as well, by developing their other senses a bit further and even re-developing the way and how and what they actually see.
We are measuring the way we see by our modern needs and standards, possibly it wasn't always so?
The nesessity of perfect vision might not be always needed, not all were good hunters perfect vision or not, some could knap tools better and trade would come out of it so on and so on.

 

[spoonman]

I tend to agree with most replies here...I like Northern Giant have not got the best eye sight but I have noticed that I tend to hear things before anyone else can hear them so even if we are talking strictly hunting it would be useful to have people with better hearing alone too. Part of the reason we humans have done so well is that we are very good at adapting too differing circumstances! The human body is as good at adapting too. The waining eye sight is compensated by more intuned hearing etc etc. You hear amazing stories everyday in the news of people learning to adapt to their disabilities!

 

[Robby]

Another facinating thread and a two subjects close to my own heart. I've been a spectacle wearer from the age of about three, and I studied Archaeology at Uni.

Not only am I Myopic but have the worst astigmatism that most opticians have ever seen. Those offers of "get your specs in an hour"...Not with my prescription.Always had to have my lenses specially ordered. Not too short sighted but the lenses are twisted. .Basically bad eyesight.

When it comes to advantages though. My hearing is or was much better than what would be considered as normal.

I do have a rather interesting advantage eyesightwise as well. As well as being myiopic and having my phenomenal astigmatism (yay me) my eyes don't respond to bright light properly not closing up in daylight. Pain in the wotsit during the daytime....at night in the woods is a different matter though. I have very good night vision.

What mother nature takes away she will give you something back. you just have to find the advantage.

To RobertRodgers "What if your poor vision prevents you from going out to battle." Well it would have to be really bad to stop that. You don't need to see far to fight with a sword or spear (talking from experience on that one as I'm a re-enactor)

I have to say that I don't think my eyesight would have been a major hindrance in a hunter gatherer lifestyle. In some areas actually an advantage. Most hunting and stalking tends to be done at closer quarters than most people think anyway and even with my eyesight as bad as it is I could probably still manage pretty well hunting in a woodland setting with a bow and arrows.

On Matt Weirs point, My tedancy not to wear my glasses as much as I should have meant I had a tendancy to correct my vision slightly by scowling which I was later told by an optician helped to deform the lenses and naturally correct my astigmatism. It did get me the reputation of being a bit dour and bad tempered, but I could still out run or out swim any of my friends and keep up my side in a fight (not that I did that very often) so I reckon (at least I hope) I would still have been seen as a viable mate in hunter gatherer terms.

After that I would like to say, Sorry, that's got to be the most I've typed since Uni. Hope it added to the thread though

 

[Toadflax]

Robby makes some interesting points.

Although my uncorrected vision is poor, I can get around on foot without glasses - people are blurred shapes but they are distinguishable. I also find that my night vision is extremely good - and my corrected vision with contact lenses or glasses is also very good. Opticians are often surprised how far down the rows of letters I can get with corrective lenses.

One benefit in the battle situation is that I may be unintentionally brave because I wouldn't realise what I was getting into. This happened in the sporting area when I was doing my basic training at Sandhurst. Because I didn't play any particular sport, I was one of the few left at the end who had to make up numbers and one day I had to do rugby. Obviously I couldn't wear my glasses, so I was apparently tackling the monsters on the opposing team without any regard for my own safety because I couldn't see that they were big brutes!



Geoff

 

[Eric_Methven]

I was apparently tackling the monsters on the opposing team without any regard for my own safety because I couldn't see that they were big brutes!

You'd have made perfect cannon fodder in another time and another place.

Eric