Gaucho firecraft?

[Galemys]

In my quest for data on the bamboo-spark method (see http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=10517&highlight=papua) and other relatively unknown, unusual & exotic ways of obtaining fire I found the following:

…The Gaucho of the Pampas takes "an elastic stick about 18 in. long, presses one end to his breast and the other in a hole in a piece of wood, and then rapidly turns the curved part like a carpenter's centre-bit."…

from:
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Fire

Can anyone provide some more information about this form of fire-by-friction? (Confirming if it is true would be a nice start)
To me it sounds like a very slow form of harakiri so I hope they used something like a bearing block to protect the chest. It can also imagine that it must be very hard on the hand that is used to turn the stick.

Tom

 

[Seoras]

Hi Tom

Seems that this has come from Darwins diary of the Beagle voyage.

See this link Darwins Diary

I would like to find out some more about this myself to try it out. I am sure Richard (Rich59) would like to find out about this as well.

I am sure somebody must have pictures or more details on this.

Cheers

George

 

[Seoras]

Hi Tom

A bit more for you. This is taken from a PDF doc titled NOTES ON FIRE-PRODUCING MACHINES. BY J. BOMILLY ALLEN,

The link is Notes on Fire Producing Machines

Specifically you need page 245.

This text below if you cannot open the doc is lifted from the PDF.

"Dr Darwin describes its use as follows :-—" Taking an elastic stick, about
18 inches long, he presses one end on his breast, and the other (which
is pointed) in a hole in a piece of wood, and then rapidly turns the curved
part like a carpenter's centre-bit."
It will be noticed that this is the only form of fire drill in which the
motion is continuous, as in all the others the movement is backwards
and forwards. It also involves a standing attitude if used as described by
Darwin, which is rather against its being employed except by Europeans."

I am going to try this out with a long length of Elder or Budlia as I have a few shafts ready and which are fairly elastic. Failing them being to short I will prep some longer lengths and try it out in a few weeks.

I am fairly clear on the method now but I may well employ some sort of bearing block at the chest area to avoid impaling myself.

Good luck finding out more.

Cheers

George

 

[Galemys]

Hi George,

thank's for posting.
I have Darwin's book myself but I didn't notice the firecraft part when I read it many years ago. The article is very interesting indeed! A nice overview of different methods of obtaining fire, including the bamboo-spark method, and some fine pictures. I particularly liked the handdrill illustration.

I hope you keep us posted when you are trying out this method.

Tom

 

[rich59]

This would be a low velocity friction system, far slower than bow and hand drills. This would need to be made up with by pressure. So I'd expect you'd have to put full body weight through it - hence the chest weight I suppose.

Now most woods with high pressure and low velocity produce coarse punk. Good hand drill woods are the exceptions to this, so I would second elder and buddliea as potential good ones. Another possibility would be philadelphus, or mock orange. Like hand drill the outer lip and soft inner core would be useful.

Hey, but what do I know. I have never seen or heard of this method working.

 

[Seoras]

Tried this out with elder and you are correct Richard a lot of pressure is required. I managed to get the tip extremley hot but as yet I have not gotten any smoke.

I used a small plastic container as protection for my chest as it was quite painful even with a thick overcoat as padding.

It may also be that the elder has got some moisture while it has been in storage over the winter. I have them lying on my radiators and will try again in a few days.

The spinning action is quite difficult to maintain so I may need to put the wood in my steamer to produce a permanent bend. Having a permanent bend may then help with increasing the speed of the revolutions.

I think this method is one for very dry climates such as the Pampas due to the low revolution speeds but I will persevere for a little while anyway.

Cheers

George

 

[Galemys]

Tried this out with elder

Does the turning spindle make it hard on the hands? I can imagine some friction building up at the point of contact. So did you use something to protect your hand or something (a hollow tube?) to reduce friction between the hand and the spindle?

Tom

 

[Seoras]

Turning the spindle with this method is easy on the hand. All the energy is being used up by my arms. I got knackered quite quickly.

While I was experimenting I had a loose grip on the shaft while rotating it. I also needed to keep one hand on the plastic cup to prevent it being flicked up by the bent shaft into my face.

I will try to get a piece of elder shaped in my steamer like this:

........................../''''''''''''''\......................

Will not be so sharply angled but you get the idea.

This may be easier to rotate than curving the whole shaft like the letter C.

If it is curved like the letter C then the connection between the hearth and the shaft is not constant and resulting in less friction between the two. I think this was why I was not getting smoke last night as well as maybe having a small amount of moisture in the shaft.

This will take a few days to prep as I will need to dry the shaft again after steaming.

Here is to trying anyway.

George

 

[Toadflax]

…The Gaucho of the Pampas takes "an elastic stick about 18 in. long, presses one end to his breast and the other in a hole in a piece of wood, and then rapidly turns the curved part like a carpenter's centre-bit."…

One of the articles on JSTOR had some description and pictures of this method. I'll have another look at it and let you know what I find.


Geoff

 

[Toadflax]

…The Gaucho of the Pampas takes "an elastic stick about 18 in. long, presses one end to his breast and the other in a hole in a piece of wood, and then rapidly turns the curved part like a carpenter's centre-bit."…

I can't find this method in the papers that I have downloaded, so it may have been in a picture at the Pitt Rivers. The picture and description I saw had a man with a bearing block for the 'top' of the fire drill pressed against his chest, using his body weight to hold the drill against a fixed object (e.g. a door frame). He is not, therefore, bracing the point of the drill against his chest. What I haven't been able to ascertain yet for this method is how the 'coal' is collected - unless the operator or someone else holds a bunch of tinder just below the point of the drill, so that the 'coal' builds up directly on the tinder.

This method of a horizontal drill is also illustrated for a 'need-fire' apparatus where the large drill appeared to he braced between the two uprights of a door frame (not sure how you'd get the drill in place, but that's how the illustration looked to me).

Another variation on the bow drill was a small kit where the bearing block (as the top of the drill) is held in the mouth - there is a 'bit' which goes between the teeth. This frees one hand to steady the hearth (and possibly also to hold a bunch of tinder by the point of the drill). This method would also possibly allow a single operator to use a thong to rotate the drill bit, rather than using a bow.

I'll keep looking.


Geoff

 

[Galemys]

I can't find this method in the papers that I have downloaded, so it may have been in a picture at the Pitt Rivers. The picture and description I saw had a man with a bearing block for the 'top' of the fire drill pressed against his chest, using his body weight to hold the drill against a fixed object (e.g. a door frame). He is not, therefore, bracing the point of the drill against his chest. What I haven't been able to ascertain yet for this method is how the 'coal' is collected - unless the operator or someone else holds a bunch of tinder just below the point of the drill, so that the 'coal' builds up directly on the tinder.

This method of a horizontal drill is also illustrated for a 'need-fire' apparatus where the large drill appeared to he braced between the two uprights of a door frame (not sure how you'd get the drill in place, but that's how the illustration looked to me).

Another variation on the bow drill was a small kit where the bearing block (as the top of the drill) is held in the mouth - there is a 'bit' which goes between the teeth. This frees one hand to steady the hearth (and possibly also to hold a bunch of tinder by the point of the drill). This method would also possibly allow a single operator to use a thong to rotate the drill bit, rather than using a bow.

I'll keep looking.


Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I received a couple of very interesting articles and copied book excerpts from Dr. Bertrand Roussel, a French scientist who is studying different forms of primitive firestarting. He has written some books about it as well and in one of these this Gaucho method is also mentioned briefly. It is illustrated with a picture of a man using this technique with a horizontal spindle and has some references as well. One of this references is to a recent French article in which the authors have succesfully experimented with this method, proving that it works.

I will scan the page and E-mail it to you so you can work out if the image is the same one as you saw. It is in French but you'll get the picture

I will put the references to this lesser known firestarting method in this thread in the coming days for everyone else interested.

Cheers,

Tom

PS
these book excerpts and articles are fantastic! Lots of information (all in French) on primitive firestarting in general, archeological evidence for different methods of firestarting, the early history of the European fire piston, news on the 'bamboo-spark' (or bamboo percussion) firestarting method, lots about the usage of the false tinder fungus and some information about a plant that was used as traditional firesteel tinder in Spain.

 

[Toadflax]

Here are a couple of rather poor quality pictures from the museum, showing a childs' toy version of the 'chest drill' from Switzerland, and a picture of its usage.

I had another look at the need-fire picture, using a doorframe. One end of the drill does bear against the doorframe, but the other end is held in place using a large wedge (looked like a plank of wood) bearing against the other side of the doorframe.


Geoff

 

[Galemys]

Here are a couple of rather poor quality pictures from the museum, showing a childs' toy version of the 'chest drill' from Switzerland, and a picture of its usage.

Hi Geoff thank's for posting those. Does he use his hands for turning the spindle or a thong? I can 't make it out in the picture.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Toadflax]

I'm pretty sure that he is using a thong. What I can't tell, however, is how he catches the ember.


Geoff

 

[Galemys]

Photobucket is much easier than E-mailing you...

Here is a scan of the page in the book by Dr. Bertrand Roussel (`La production du feu par la percossion de la pierre`) showing the ´brace drill´ at work and a little piece of text with references:

I´m very curious as well how a coal is made in this horizontal position, by looking at the picture I would guess all the hot sawdust will just fall down...

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Galemys]

Over at paleoplanet someone managed to make fire with an adaptation to the Gaucho brace drill method (video):
http://www.bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40317

Cheers,

Tom