First two

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hollowdweller

Forager
Mar 3, 2006
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appalachia
Hope this post is not too farm and agriculture and not enough hunter gatherer but here's the first two kids of the year :lmao:

LiveEvil.jpg


Just to try to keep the self sufficiency aspect in it ;) Here's some Chevre' that I have making from the mom's milk. She's a great producer and has plenty extra. Great tasting lots of butterfat. Disc and pyramid molds.

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jdlenton

Full Member
Dec 14, 2004
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Northampton
Very nice the kids and the chevre:) Haven't got a Goat in my small holding plans my wife's not too fond of the milk and if i ate even a small amount of that lovely looking chevre i would end up the size of a house:lmao:

James
 

bilko

Settler
May 16, 2005
513
6
53
SE london
They look great, I like goatses, and pigs.
Watched a film called cold moutain the other day and there was an old woman who lived alone inb the forest. She kept goats. She said " a goat will be a good friend, give you milk and cheese. and when you are in need, some good meat". She then slit the goats throat and collected the blood for a sausage presumably. It was all very tastefully done as she thanked and stroked the goat whilst it died.
 

Ogri the trog

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Apr 29, 2005
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We used to have two British Toggenburgs, kept for milking. I felt a bit rotten as I'd leave the wife to do all the milking when I was away from home. The last straw was when they broke into the chicken pen and chewed our prized fruit tree saplings down to stumps. They went back to the herd where they came from. Otherwise, very nice characters, would walk next to you along a country road but were pathalogically incapable of ignoring anything that looked as if it could be nibbled.

Good looking kids there Hollowdweller, we used to make our own cheese as well but not on your scale.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

hollowdweller

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Mar 3, 2006
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Ogri the trog said:
We used to have two British Toggenburgs, kept for milking. I felt a bit rotten as I'd leave the wife to do all the milking when I was away from home. The last straw was when they broke into the chicken pen and chewed our prized fruit tree saplings down to stumps. They went back to the herd where they came from. Otherwise, very nice characters, would walk next to you along a country road but were pathalogically incapable of ignoring anything that looked as if it could be nibbled.

Good looking kids there Hollowdweller, we used to make our own cheese as well but not on your scale.

ATB

Ogri the trog

How did you like the Togg milk? Here in the US Toggenburgs are the most likely to have "goaty" strong flavored milk. I always heard the speculation that some strains of Toggs were bred for making stronger cheese and were selectively bred for strong milk. I had some friends in Pennsylvania who ran a raw milk goat dairy. Once a month they would take a sample from each goat and the husband, who was the most discriminating would sample the milk. He claimed to be able to tell most of about 30 does from the taste of their milk, and said that 90% of the off flavor they had was from Toggs, especially the descendants of one famous buck Stoneybrook Cavalier.

Another thing my friend who had all the breeds said was the Toggs were the smartest and big escape artists.

I'm not a large scale cheese maker. The pic of the cheese is from 2 gallons of milk.

One of my early saanens had off flavor milk and over the years of breeding I have taken special care to select only lines with good tasing and keeping milk.
 

Ogri the trog

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Apr 29, 2005
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hollowdweller said:
How did you like the Togg milk? Here in the US Toggenburgs are the most likely to have "goaty" strong flavored milk. I always heard the speculation that some strains of Toggs were bred for making stronger cheese and were selectively bred for strong milk. I had some friends in Pennsylvania who ran a raw milk goat dairy. Once a month they would take a sample from each goat and the husband, who was the most discriminating would sample the milk. He claimed to be able to tell most of about 30 does from the taste of their milk, and said that 90% of the off flavor they had was from Toggs, especially the descendants of one famous buck Stoneybrook Cavalier.

Another thing my friend who had all the breeds said was the Toggs were the smartest and big escape artists.

I'm not a large scale cheese maker. The pic of the cheese is from 2 gallons of milk.

One of my early saanens had off flavor milk and over the years of breeding I have taken special care to select only lines with good tasing and keeping milk.

Hi Hollowdweller, thanks for the reply.
The story of our goat keeping is kind of protracted. I became allergic to cows milk a few years ago, shortly before moving to a rural area of the UK, so goats milk was the next best option. Just before we moved, a friend gave us a togg nanny, which stayed on another friends farm till we had sold up. Some months later, we had her serviced by yet another friends billy. This enabled us to milk after the kid was born and was an enjoyable start on the road to milking, cheese-making and all the stuff that goes with it. About 2 years after moving, the original nanny died in late pregnancy after recieving a side impact from a jealous sheep. We kept the nanny kid and had her serviced as well as bartering for another nanny as companion. The one that we'd bartered for was an expert escapologist, even climbing trees to escape the boundaries. In doing so, she "taught" our first nanny how to climb - which led to them both getting into the chicken pen and the ultimate depature as noted in my first post.
As to the taste of the milk, when the only other option is soya milk, I don't care what breed of goat my milk comes from, it's always better than the alternative ;)

Being from one of the wetter parts of the UK, we had to keep the goats feet trimmed and were constantly on the look-out for straw for dry bedding.

I played a pretty cruel joke on a mate at work who was always pestering for me to make him some goats cheese. I made the cheese and let it mature for a few months, then took it into work one friday night - he had already left for the weekend, so I left it in his office. When he got back on monday morning the smell nearly knocked him over :bandit: But it stopped him asking endless dumb questions.

I suppose I miss their antics and enquisative looks whenever I'm out in the garden, but its still unfair to expect my wife to look after them when I'n not here.

All the best to you and yours,

Ogri the trog
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
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Nice pic. I really miss goats. My folks tried their hands at the self sufficiency thing in the 70s. We had a couple of British Saanen and a British Alpine. If I ever do manage to go down the self sufficiency road goats would be my first livestock. Don't think I'll ever be able to afford it though, you have to be pretty rich to live like a peasant in this country :( .
 

swyn

Life Member
Nov 24, 2004
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Eastwards!
Hey Hollowdweller. My daughter is overwelmed by your picture. She has been pushing now sometime for goats/sheep! Last year she got chickens. This year..... well I'm looking into this. Soay sheep are an alternative.
The chickens are battery rescue and are producing that many eggs they are paying for themselves. I am not sure about goats cheese but my wife loves it so that may swing the balance.
Ogri the Trog. Were your goats serious escape artists as this makes the fencing calculations interesting. I would love to have your opinions. I have a lot of young trees around and do not want them eaten :eek: Thanks from Swyn
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
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Norfolk
swyn said:
Hey Hollowdweller. My daughter is overwelmed by your picture. She has been pushing now sometime for goats/sheep! Last year she got chickens. This year..... well I'm looking into this. Soay sheep are an alternative.
The chickens are battery rescue and are producing that many eggs they are paying for themselves. I am not sure about goats cheese but my wife loves it so that may swing the balance.
Ogri the Trog. Were your goats serious escape artists as this makes the fencing calculations interesting. I would love to have your opinions. I have a lot of young trees around and do not want them eaten :eek: Thanks from Swyn
I was never that keen on goats cheese myself, but I remember goat butter being excellent.
 

hollowdweller

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Mar 3, 2006
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I've made butter a few times but since I work full time I mainly stick to making stuff that is not super involved time wise. Chevre' Yogurt, Kefir, Feta. I like to make a few Tommes and age them too if I have time but you really have to be careful aging them or they can get too dry.

I have always been lucky. I sold any fence jumpers before they could teach the others. I also have 5' tall 5 strand 14 gauge hi tensile electric fence. I use 2 paddocks of a couple of acres and rotate, and also I have 80 acres of woods I can lead them thru although in summer when biting insects are out they lay around in the barn eatying hay most of the time :rolleyes:

One of the most influential saanens ever to come to the US was Mostyn Messenger who came from the UK I guess Ms. Mostyn Owen? was an influential breeder over there.

Goats are a major commitment IMO. Twice a day milking, washing containers, buying hay and feed. I have kept dairy goats since 1988 and am lucky to have farmsitters to milk when I want to go hiking and camping, and I live in the country so I can hike here too, but still you have to really want to do it. Still I have had goats so long they are so much a part of my whole lifestyle I can't imagine not having them.
 

Ogri the trog

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Apr 29, 2005
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swyn said:
Ogri the Trog. Were your goats serious escape artists as this makes the fencing calculations interesting. I would love to have your opinions. I have a lot of young trees around and do not want them eaten :eek: Thanks from Swyn

Hi Swyn,
Our first togg was really passive until being instructed in the ways of escapology by the incomer. Most fencing was standard stock fence wire with a single plain strand 6" above.
As such, I recon if you can get them young enough, they should be OK. Alternatively, you can use either fixed or running tethers. Fixed is just a length of rope or chain with a collar at one end and a stake at the other (a swivel link at the collar makes a sensible addition). A running tether is similar but the stake end is a loop around another length of rope stretched between two stakes, so the animal has a longer run. You move the stakes every few days to new pasture. Remember to give them access to some form of shelter. Goats are hardy beings but certain breeds have no oil in their fur - meaning that they get wet and easily chilled in bad weather.
There are a number of good books on goat keeping, one of the most informative being "Goat Husbandry" but I forget the author at the moment.

If you can get along to any "Country" or Smallholding" shows, the breeders there are normally all too willing to chat about their animals and offer advice.

Good luck if you do get into goats....well, good luck even if you don't. ;)

Ogri the trog
 

hollowdweller

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Mar 3, 2006
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Ogri the trog said:
Hi Swyn,
There are a number of good books on goat keeping, one of the most informative being "Goat Husbandry" but I forget the author at the moment.
Ogri the trog

David MacKenzie

Good sites for goat supply/info www.caprinesupply.com
Good cheese recipes and goat mgmt info www.fiascofarm.com

Wanted to comment on the teather method. Unless if you are at home virtually all the time and can check every hour or so on the goat I think teathers are a risky proposition. I have known of so many to get hung or killed by dogs that way.

I have some very small woven wire pens but the rest of my fencing is electric.

I raise my kids on the bottle and they are raised in a calf hutch surrounded by electrified netting. It is virtually impossible for them to not get shocked if they come into contact with it. So almost from birth they are conditioned to respect fences.

Also a well fed goat will not jump a fence but a hungry one will jump strong fences(or a horney one) For your bucks you want stout fencing but if you make sure your goats are getting enough to eat they are way less likely unless you get a rogue that is a fence jumper teach them.

My goats will stay behind a 2.5 foot 3 strand polywire electric fence they are so conditioned to it. That type of fence is super easy to put up. The key is to get them as kids and start them in an electric fence that is really small, tight and very hot.
 

hollowdweller

Forager
Mar 3, 2006
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appalachia
Here is the kid yard from last year. The front section is welded rod stock fencing so I can hang feeders off of it and I was feeding the kids cut box elder limbs. The electric netting is surrounding the rest, and there are two moveable calf hutches in there for them. With this set up you save a lot of money on coccidia medicine and wormer because you can keep moving the pens and fence to fresh ground that prevents buildup of parasites ;)

hutch.jpg
 

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