Fires galore

[Le Loup]

As I posted earlier, there are places & times when fires should not be lit. Big fires are not necessary & they can be dangerous. However, my own point of view on fires is this: We are just another animal, we were born to the natural environment. Humans have been using & making fire for thousands of years. Seeing an area marked by a fire simply shows that a human has been there before you, it is now a part of the natural environment. I do not believe there is anything wrong in making a fire providing you follow the usual safety precautions before, during & after you have finished with the fire.
Keith.

 

[CaptainCoordinates]

I get the impession that CaptainCo want to forbid open fires everywhere.

You stated "open fires". What do you mean by an "open fire"?

If you mean a 'ground fire', often referred to as an "open fire" then yes. Forbid them as they truly do not LNT.

I'm completely happy with any other constructed fire where there is no damage caused from its heat or flame and the ashes are disposed of responsibly.

 

[Le Loup]

Monkey see, monkey do.

It is embarrassing and irritable to see fire idiots building and maintaining open fires in areas of national beauty with no regard to the "Leave no trace" ethos. Either the culprits are just following the herd by seeing others 'having fires' and emulating that for social media 'likes' or they're just plain idiots!

I wanted to ask a question about good open fire procedure but the responses here already seem to disregard any LNT ethos. Bushcraft involves fires, yes. But, Bushcraft involves craft. You DO NOT destroy in any way the place which you desire or require to be. Fire pit scars are unacceptable. Culprits are vandals. Any 7 year old can light a fire. Surely the 'craft' element of this group can venture further than the striking a match and burning stuff? I did that at 7 too, but grew up!

I am dismayed by the amount of open fires illustrated in photographs on social media sites by expectant self centred individuals who believe it to be their god given right to live like vandalistic neanderthals at the expense of the landscape they visit. They are nothing but vandals, unwanted visitors with small brains and should stay in their central heated 'caves' and be restricted access to the beauty they acclaim to be part of as well as being restricted to any combustible materials.

Open fires, leaving scars, frankly is disgusting.

There are times when a fire is needed, & if one is to enjoy the natural environment then keeping warm on a cold winters night is necessary, & cooking food & having a hot drink is perfectly NATURAL. What I don't like is the use of fuel stoves which cause carbon emissions & help drive climate change which is environmentally damaging.
Keith.

 

[CaptainCoordinates]

There are times when a fire is needed, & if one is to enjoy the natural environment then keeping warm on a cold winters night is necessary, & cooking food & having a hot drink is perfectly NATURAL. What I don't like is the use of fuel stoves which cause carbon emissions & help drive climate change which is environmentally damaging.
Keith.

With respect, you're based in Australia not the UK. 'BushcraftUK' and open fires in the UK was what I was trying to identify.

I don't like the idea that anybody would rip bark off trees as tinder when there is plenty around on fallen timbers, ground fires and making those in the roots of trees less than a foot away from a 'tinder' source. The necessity illustrated in the video you just posted is not in any way for any heat requirements on a winters night, and reminds me greatly of all those things Leave No Trace in the UK intends to avoid at all costs.

@Broch was just saying how LNT was held in high esteem in this group. I would now beg to differ.

 

[Robson Valley]

Coleman petrol stoves and campfires both produce "carbon emissions." You cannot have one without the other. Camp fires are millions of years old as are so many of the fire lighting techniques that we enjoy fooling with in this day and time.

If you had the space in the UK, you would see as we do that all of the best camping sites have some form of camp fire stone circles. That's how you find camping places in areas new to you! I guess it's an unspoken agreement here that you use the fire pits made by others. Keeps the charcoal under control.

Second, who were your campfiring, neolithic ancestors? For you, they drifted into the fog of antiquity, thousands of years ago. Here, it hasn't happened yet. The First Nations jumped from stone and bone to iron in a matter of months. The old ways haven't been lost, as the shift was only a couple of centuries ago. Their languages are still alive, a bit sick but there's a great resurgence in interest to recover those words.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

With respect, you're based in Australia not the UK. 'BushcraftUK' and open fires in the UK was what I was trying to identify.

I think perhaps the issue with the term 'leave no trace' is that it allows no room for context when taken literally, or the idea of respect for others.
Leave no trace in the UK probably has a different meaning, and different implications, compared to in wilderness areas such as you find in Australia, or areas frequented mainly by travellers in which fires are routinely used or even expected.

 

[Le Loup]

With respect, you're based in Australia not the UK. 'BushcraftUK' and open fires in the UK was what I was trying to identify.

I don't like the idea that anybody would rip bark off trees as tinder when there is plenty around on fallen timbers, ground fires and making those in the roots of trees less than a foot away from a 'tinder' source. The necessity illustrated in the video you just posted is not in any way for any heat requirements on a winters night, and reminds me greatly of all those things Leave No Trace in the UK intends to avoid at all costs.

@Broch was just saying how LNT was held in high esteem in this group. I would now beg to differ.

It is obvious from your comment CC that you don't know what you are talking about, & I was born in West Sussex England & lived there for 19 years. High time you stopped criticizing this thread & moved on.
Keith.

 

[CaptainCoordinates]

It is obvious from your comment CC that you don't know what you are talking about, & I was born in West Sussex England & lived there for 19 years. High time you stopped criticizing this thread & moved on.
Keith.

Still hoping for some intelligent contributions which don't leave scorched ground LL. If you can provide that, I'd be happy to hear or see, that would be a skilled part of the 'craft'. It was in fact you who quoted my post and perfectly illustrated with your video where the idiots in the UK get their ideas from when it comes to burning the ground. Just what you might have been expecting after opening the conversation with me and doing that who knows?

I'm not criticizing this thread, it has revealed some very considerate crafters. Interestingly, their locations are notable. Hopefully there will be more.

 

[Herman30]

You stated "open fires". What do you mean by an "open fire"?

If you mean a 'ground fire', often referred to as an "open fire" then yes. Forbid them as they truly do not LNT.

I'm completely happy with any other constructed fire where there is no damage caused from its heat or flame and the ashes are disposed of responsibly.

If I were to say my honest oppinion about you I would get banned so I won´t....have a nice day!

 

[Broch]

CC, you've rattled a few people on here because of the tone of your questions and statements rather than what you're asking - keep it light-hearted whenever you can and you'll get a more measured conversation going.

There have been a few threads on here over the years that describe good practice for fire lighting in the wilds. Unfortunately, some are out of date.

It is relatively easy to have an overnight, small, camp/cook fire and, with preparation, to 'repair' the patch so that there is no visible trace and the site is safe - however, that is not the whole story. We now know that the earth beneath a fire gets scorched for a considerable depth and all important microbial life and the mycorrhizal fungi get destroyed and can take a long time to recover. Then, of course, there is the danger of tree root damage and smouldering fires at quite a depth after larger or prolonged fires.

In a vast landscape that is not so much of a problem when there are few fires if the site is made 100% safe; in the UK, with a population of over 67 million and an average population density of over 250 people per square kilometre, it is obvious we can't all go around lighting ground fires.

So advice is: if the weather and terrain allows, light fires in stoves or pits raised off the ground if possible; otherwise build a mound of surface soil, sand, stones (with care) or gravel and light a small fire on that; or, only light fires on inert ground - riverside gravel and rock, sand etc. Only light the size fire you need for the task: cook, warmth, distress signal etc.

The guidance for making the site safe and hiding evidence remain as they have for years.

I do not have the luxury of being so tidy in my own wood when I am working. I have to burn the brash on the ground near where I am working; but you would have difficulty identifying where the fire was the following season. But brash fires are 'open' fires and do not have that central core of extreme heat that a camp fire has after hours or even days of use; there is a difference.

Whenever I go to someone else's wood, or to a meet, I take a cheap folding fire pit and use that with a heat shield underneath it. The one permanent camp in my wood has a large, solid, firepit raised off the ground.