Fire by friction.

[IntrepidStu]

Well, I GOT SMOKE, but no ember. All I could get was a very fine black powder. I suppose it would help if I knew what wood I was using for the hearth. The drill is definately Maple though. I think the hearth is either Cherry or Sycamore. Both drill and hearth are very dry and light, and the drill seems to go deep in the hearth very fast.

Does anyone recomend ONE type of wood to use for the bowdrill method (and maybe another for the hand drill method).

 

[elevenses]

I'm no expert but I think for use with a bow it does not matter to much I have used several different woods (Birch, Various Pine, Spruce and Rose) I have always used the same wood for the drill and hearth (don't know if this is right though ?) I have never tried hand drill and from what I have read it does make a difference. it does sound like the hearth is a little to soft if you are going through it quickly. you could try using the same wood for both ?

not sure but if your getting black powder you can not be far off have you tried different pressure's ?

sorry could not be of more help

 

[Ivan]

Hi Stu,
Sounds to me like you have not begun with the right wood combination. Trust the ancients. The best for heartboards is ivy. The best wood I've found for the spindle and hand drill is Horse Chestnut. Use a stick with as little pith as you can find. Good luck to you and let us know how you do.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Well, I GOT SMOKE, but no ember. All I could get was a very fine black powder. I suppose it would help if I knew what wood I was using for the hearth. The drill is definately Maple though. I think the hearth is either Cherry or Sycamore. Both drill and hearth are very dry and light, and the drill seems to go deep in the hearth very fast.

Does anyone recomend ONE type of wood to use for the bowdrill method (and maybe another for the hand drill method).

My favourites for bow-drill are a hazel drill on a cedar hearth, If it is one type of wood for both, then I'm assured that willow is it - but I couldn't get it to work last week. Hand drill recommendations would be elder spindle on an ivy hearth.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[rich59]

Well, I GOT SMOKE, but no ember. All I could get was a very fine black powder. I suppose it would help if I knew what wood I was using for the hearth. The drill is definately Maple though. I think the hearth is either Cherry or Sycamore. Both drill and hearth are very dry and light, and the drill seems to go deep in the hearth very fast.

Does anyone recomend ONE type of wood to use for the bowdrill method (and maybe another for the hand drill method).

Excellent Stu.

Maple would be probably moderately similar to sycamore (sycamore is a maple). I find sycamore is quite tough to get embers with unless you are well used to it - it very easily goes squeaky on me.

If you are going through your hearth board quickly then you probably have a soft wood - which is theoretically good for the hearth. One thing you could alter perhaps is use a thicker maple drill if you have one. This will produce hotter, finer powder and go through the hearth more slowly. The only down side of a bigger drill is a need for more pressure through the bearing block.

But to answer your question:-

Bowdrill - Willow on ivy

Hand drill - elder on commercial pine.

 

[cheapeats]

I have used Cedar on cedar and sumac on sumac and aspen on aspen. I have witnessed cedar on sumac. I have tried hazel but the sawdust is not like dust but more like the whiskers left after a shave .I am not certain if any of these are availible in your locale. Thinking about it another name for a type of cedar is arbor vitae( tree of life Spelling?) When you say you got smoke and black powder when you stop did the pile of black stay smoking? if it is still smoking that is an ember or the start of one. Is the notch holding all of the sawdust? If it is not dropping in the notch is to narrow if it isfalling out and not staying together it is too wide. The material needs to stay together to hold in the heat .If the drill is boring in too quickly try less pressure and more speed. Or try making your spindle of the same material as the hearth/fireboard. What are you using for your hanhold/bearing is it slippery enough? If your bearing is wooden try lubricating it with a little pine pitch, it also works good on stone bearings. My slipperiest(word?) bearing is a pottery candle stick holder not very woodsy but smooth as silk. I have heard of people covering a shot glass in duct tape(just in case it cracks it dont destroy your hand. Sorry if I ramble but this such a fun subject and without being there it is tough to diagnose so I am just mentioning my short comings. Good Luck it sounds like you have a good start.

Here is a link to Mal Stephens Blog and alist of the woods he has used for a bowdrill. Mal is one of the people who showed me how to do the bowdrill. You may be able to find similar wood in the UK.
http://survivalinstructor.blogspot.com/2006/08/bow-drill-woods.html

The tamarack he mentions is a type of larch wich I believe is found in the UK

 

[Lithril]

Well done Stu, you've got the powder, now you just need to generate enough heat to ignite it, do you stop because you've gone completely through the hearth? I'd try Rich' advice and use a wider a drill.

Good combination I've used is Ivy hearth with a hazel spindle.

 

[IntrepidStu]

cheers guys, lots of good advice. I normaly stop because the drill decides to launch itself 50 feet in the air, or my feet start to hurt because of the position im in.

Any advice on the most compfortable position (right handed) would be welcome. Ive been using my right leg/foot to hold the hearth and support my drilling hand, but i feel like my body is contorted. It doesnt help that I have lower back problems!!

 

[mace242]

cheers guys, lots of good advice. I normaly stop because the drill decides to launch itself 50 feet in the air, or my feet start to hurt because of the position im in.

Any advice on the most compfortable position (right handed) would be welcome. Ive been using my right leg/foot to hold the hearth and support my drilling hand, but i feel like my body is contorted. It doesnt help that I have lower back problems!!

Try putting your left foot on the hearth to the left of the hole and kneeling on your right knee. That way you can lock your left hand to your left knee steadying the bearing block. This is the pretty much standard way of doing it.

Though reading your post I figure you may be left handed - so of course swap all that round if so.

I recommend goat willow, hazel, sycamore and ivy too.

 

[IntrepidStu]

Try putting your left foot on the hearth to the left of the hole and kneeling on your right knee. That way you can lock your left hand to your left knee steadying the bearing block. This is the pretty much standard way of doing it.

Though reading your post I figure you may be left handed - so of course swap all that round if so.

I recommend goat willow, hazel, sycamore and ivy too.

Cheers. Im actualy Right handed (thats probably why I was getting aches and pains).

 

[cheapeats]

http:/http://primitiveskills.com/latest_class_photos.html/

At the bottom of the page is a video showing some good and some bad technique. A good example of the bad is the way one guys hand moves around because his wrist isn't locked into his leg I think he also the one who doesn't put his foot on the hearth. Keep in mind this is not so much an instructional video as a video of class participants.

 

[Matt Weir]

Stu,

A good combo is sycamore hearth and hazel drill which is nice as you will probably bump into both within five minutes

 

[Allie]

Stu,

A good combo is sycamore hearth and hazel drill which is nice as you will probably bump into both within five minutes

Sorry quick question - would hazel on maple do? I know sycamore is a part of that family but are they interchangeable, or not really?

 

[mace242]

Cheers. Im actualy Right handed (thats probably why I was getting aches and pains).

no probs. If you have trouble I'll get the camera out and send a picture of me in what I think is the right position (well it works for me and all the books seem to have the same in them)

 

[mace242]

Cheers. Im actualy Right handed (thats probably why I was getting aches and pains).

no probs. If you have trouble I'll get the camera out and send a picture of me in what I think is the right position (well it works for me and all the books seem to have the same in them)

In fact I don't need to - a bit o google gives:

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/basicbowdrill.html

 

[Matt Weir]

Sorry quick question - would hazel on maple do? I know sycamore is a part of that family but are they interchangeable, or not really?

I dunno but the theory seems sound. Give it a try Allie, let me know how you get on.

 

[forrestdweller]

i've used hazelnut, lime(tilia-species)and poplar with success; both drill and hearthboard made from the same wood. according to my informations pine and spruce are also supposed to work.
i do not know if it would be available in the uk, but from a (too) short visit to the best and most beautyful country in the world i brought me the book "making fire" by s.blake and d.m. welch as a souvenir; a detailed and very good guide about the subject of fire-by-friction.

"disappointed by the monkeys, god created man. then he renounced to further experiments." mark twain

 

[badgeringtim]

This might be a silly question, but is it better to use a whole small branch for the spindle (im presuming just less than an inch), or to split and shape one from a larger peice of wood? Im just thinking you wouldnt have much pith then.
Also with Ivy as the hearthboard - doesnt this mean the board has to be very small - ivy doesnt get that big does it..?
While we are at it - whats a sensible option for the string - i have tried a few but they keep snapping, was thinking about getting parachute cord - any thoughts?

Sorry didnt mean to hijack the thread

 

[forrestdweller]

i normally use heavy fishing line(100lbs or more) or likewise material. and about the ivy: the biggest vine i ever saw was ca. 25cm in diameter.(of course i only took a photo and left it for others to see as well)

"disappointed by the monkeys, god created man. then he renounced to further experiments." mark twain

 

[rich59]

is it better to use a whole small branch for the spindle (im presuming just less than an inch), or to split and shape one from a larger peice of wood?

While we are at it - whats a sensible option for the string - i have tried a few but they keep snapping, was thinking about getting parachute cord - any thoughts?

small branch or split out bit of wood work equally well for bow drill.

The modern synthetic cords are the best for bow drill. But with the Egyptian bow drill method you can use much weaker natural cords. You can sometimes even do without the bow.