Do any folks carry field surgical kits when they are in the back of beyond ?, being ex forces i still have my kit with forceps, scalpels, suture kits etc .i used to carry a 6 man combat first aid pack . i found the shop bought 2/4 person ones where usually incomplete and had poor quality materials in them.
FIeld surgical kitS
- Thread starter muntjac
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No, for two reasons really.
Firstly I'm not out in the wilderness where I would need such a kit and secondly I don't have the necessary training to use that kit.
Firstly I'm not out in the wilderness where I would need such a kit and secondly I don't have the necessary training to use that kit.
Your 1st aid kit should really be based around your needs at that time. Hence instead of lots of exotic kit mine has mainly calpol,frozen elsa plasters and antihistamines...although i do carry some tissue adhesive.
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I carry aspects of them that I've *ahem* borrowed from hospitals and uni, but not things like CATs or anything like that. Otc first aid kits are fine but yes do need tweaking, that being said things like sutures can cause more harm than good if you don't know how to use them. And hopefully the only injury you'll actually be treating is a knick on a pinkie finger not a .308 to the arm!
Sausage100UK sounds about bang on with the kit mind, headaches, cuts and allergies covered.
Sausage100UK sounds about bang on with the kit mind, headaches, cuts and allergies covered.
In the UK there is no need for a suture kit, what you do need is the knowledge and items to control blood loss, then get medical help. I do carry Dermabond.
My FAKs for hiking and such are usually from Boots or wherever.
They're generally about a quarter of the size of a box of breakfast cereal, but the ones in the Jeep and the truck are approaching the size of a shoe box. In my case that's quite a big box.
I've got a really tiny FAK (Lifeventure) for the motorcycles. That's because it takes up less space but it's a legal requirement in some countries.
I think it would be useless if I actually had a serious motorcycling accident. The one time I offered first aid (to a Spanish biker who'd just dropped his bike on a mountain road in France) the offer was brusquely declined. I think his pride was injured more than his bleeding knee.
The commercially available kits never seem to contain enough micropore tape, nor any surgical alcohol, aspirin, insect bite relief, paracetamol, rubber bands nor a decent knife.
So I add (or carry) those, and one or two other odds and ends. In fact most of the time, apart from the clothing I'm wearing, the additions are all that I carry.
I occasionally do minor surgery on myself with my Victorinox Signature, but I'd be very reluctant to do it on anyone else (members of this forum excepted, obviously).
They're generally about a quarter of the size of a box of breakfast cereal, but the ones in the Jeep and the truck are approaching the size of a shoe box. In my case that's quite a big box.
I've got a really tiny FAK (Lifeventure) for the motorcycles. That's because it takes up less space but it's a legal requirement in some countries.
I think it would be useless if I actually had a serious motorcycling accident. The one time I offered first aid (to a Spanish biker who'd just dropped his bike on a mountain road in France) the offer was brusquely declined. I think his pride was injured more than his bleeding knee.
The commercially available kits never seem to contain enough micropore tape, nor any surgical alcohol, aspirin, insect bite relief, paracetamol, rubber bands nor a decent knife.
So I add (or carry) those, and one or two other odds and ends. In fact most of the time, apart from the clothing I'm wearing, the additions are all that I carry.
I occasionally do minor surgery on myself with my Victorinox Signature, but I'd be very reluctant to do it on anyone else (members of this forum excepted, obviously).
I leave surgery for the pro's.
I always carry a small grab bag with blast bandages, chitogauze, tourniquets, NP's, Resus mask and algorithm. Working with foresters and keepers if they have a bad accident it's likely to be quite messy.
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I always carry a small grab bag with blast bandages, chitogauze, tourniquets, NP's, Resus mask and algorithm. Working with foresters and keepers if they have a bad accident it's likely to be quite messy.
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As others have suggested it really depends on how you define the "back of beyond", how long you will be there, what you will be doing, how many people you will be responsible for, how are you traveling and what your first aid/surgical skills (and/or those of others in your group) are.
A field surgical kit designed for the needs of 6 men in a combat situation is unlikely to be appropriate for week lightweight solo hiking in the Scottish Highlands but might be just the thing for someone running an axe juggling workshop for A&E consultants in a remote area with no phone reception.
Stay safe!
A field surgical kit designed for the needs of 6 men in a combat situation is unlikely to be appropriate for week lightweight solo hiking in the Scottish Highlands but might be just the thing for someone running an axe juggling workshop for A&E consultants in a remote area with no phone reception.
Stay safe!
A field surgery kit? Crikey; what are you expecting to treat in the great wilderness of the U.K.? Is this for you or for others? If it's for others don't forget the paperwork for when they take you to court!!
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I'm not sure what you might expect to be doing with a surgery kit in the field. Maybe if you were in the depths of the Jungle, or 1000 miles from another human in Canada, or on Antartica. But even then I would be inclined to lean towards it being a bit unnecessary.
I feel that COTS first aid kits are woefully lacking, primarily in the size and style of dressings they come with, so I built my own. I detailed it in [thread=133387]this thread[/thread]. Noone has commented on the thread, so either noone can come up with anything wrong with it, or everyone's too polite...
I had reason to use the FAK in anger at the end of August, it was perhaps overkill using one of the T4 dressings on a cut on my finger, but the amount of blood produced I thought it the best choice at the time. I was also able to open it with one hand (and teeth), and apply it with the one hand.
Out of interest, what surgery do you expect to perform in the bush?
J
I feel that COTS first aid kits are woefully lacking, primarily in the size and style of dressings they come with, so I built my own. I detailed it in [thread=133387]this thread[/thread]. Noone has commented on the thread, so either noone can come up with anything wrong with it, or everyone's too polite...
I had reason to use the FAK in anger at the end of August, it was perhaps overkill using one of the T4 dressings on a cut on my finger, but the amount of blood produced I thought it the best choice at the time. I was also able to open it with one hand (and teeth), and apply it with the one hand.
Out of interest, what surgery do you expect to perform in the bush?
J
Agreed, my kit is mostly based around whittling cuts and hang overs. Maybe some Imodium if my mates cooking
Antiseptic wipes, plasters and butterfly stitches also very handy just to keep things clean until it can be done properly. Also eye bandages are great for digit cuts as they are basically a cause and bandage in one.No, But I will do.
My background is currently as a final year medical student.
I carry a kit with CAT TQs, heamostat gauze and chest seals when I'm shooting. I assume that if anything goes wrong everyone will look at me and I don't plan to improvise.
I will chuck a suture kit in my normal FAK as I can suture (and do it on patients under supervision) and if it's on me on a non cosmetic / functional region I'd prefer to suture myself then wait in A&E. (I'm aware that this isn't the "right attitude").
My background is currently as a final year medical student.
I carry a kit with CAT TQs, heamostat gauze and chest seals when I'm shooting. I assume that if anything goes wrong everyone will look at me and I don't plan to improvise.
I will chuck a suture kit in my normal FAK as I can suture (and do it on patients under supervision) and if it's on me on a non cosmetic / functional region I'd prefer to suture myself then wait in A&E. (I'm aware that this isn't the "right attitude").
For the medically non trained person some disinfecting solution, bandage, plasters, antihistamines and over the counter painkillets is enough.
If you puncture an artery ( the Femoral Artery is easily damaged when unskillfully whittling etc) you are toast.
Should you break a leg and be far away from civilisation the same.
Suturing is difficult for a lay person, and you will/ can encapsulate infections.
I am a dental surgeon, also trained to be a field surgeon.
In a war situation, all that is done in the first ( batallion size) field hospital is to triage and stabilize, and the equipment there is fairly comprehensive.
On a personal side, my military career ended when I snapped the cruciform ligaments and crushed parts of both Meniscuses in my right knee during a parachute jump. It was winter, lots of snow.
It was a solo insertion, so no buddy to help me. The nearest house was about 20 kilometers away. Despite ditching most of my equipment it took me over a day to get there, on skis. Or to be more precise, one ski as the right leg was useless, even after splinting.
Had it been the snow less seasons it would have taken me much longer.
Jumping on one leg in bad terrain with a load and a gun is incredibly difficult.
If you puncture an artery ( the Femoral Artery is easily damaged when unskillfully whittling etc) you are toast.
Should you break a leg and be far away from civilisation the same.
Suturing is difficult for a lay person, and you will/ can encapsulate infections.
I am a dental surgeon, also trained to be a field surgeon.
In a war situation, all that is done in the first ( batallion size) field hospital is to triage and stabilize, and the equipment there is fairly comprehensive.
On a personal side, my military career ended when I snapped the cruciform ligaments and crushed parts of both Meniscuses in my right knee during a parachute jump. It was winter, lots of snow.
It was a solo insertion, so no buddy to help me. The nearest house was about 20 kilometers away. Despite ditching most of my equipment it took me over a day to get there, on skis. Or to be more precise, one ski as the right leg was useless, even after splinting.
Had it been the snow less seasons it would have taken me much longer.
Jumping on one leg in bad terrain with a load and a gun is incredibly difficult.
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I agree.
Ask yourself, what is your skill level? have you been recentley trained? It's alright saying I was trained and highly proficient (but that was 20 years ago and i've never used it since.) and do you envisage a need for the kit.
I keep a suture kit in my FAK, but hope to god I never use it, I am trained and currently proficient in Sutering, However I carry it as it weighs very little,and came in a bundle with other items I wanted.
Truth is ... using my philosophy I should take it out as I never envsage the need to use it. but I figure however small the likelyhood is of me using it when im out and about, it is more likely than me needing it when im at home.
Ask yourself, what is your skill level? have you been recentley trained? It's alright saying I was trained and highly proficient (but that was 20 years ago and i've never used it since.) and do you envisage a need for the kit.
I keep a suture kit in my FAK, but hope to god I never use it, I am trained and currently proficient in Sutering, However I carry it as it weighs very little,and came in a bundle with other items I wanted.
Truth is ... using my philosophy I should take it out as I never envsage the need to use it. but I figure however small the likelyhood is of me using it when im out and about, it is more likely than me needing it when im at home.
could someone explain these acronyms for me please
NP
Cots....finger thing?
Otc
Cat
Ta......adam
NP
Cots....finger thing?
Otc
Cat
Ta......adam
while I'd agree with the kit list, you'd have to be a 5 thumbed muppet to hit an artery while whittling
NP = nasopharyngeal
Cots....finger thing? I guess so not heard that one before but I think it may mean Commercial off the shelf
Otc = Over the counter i.e. not RX or prescription only
Cat = Combat Application Tourniquet
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If the cots are the individual finger covers, then these ones from ebay have proved to be useful. They not only protect a plastered finger from muck and grime, but they really do help with a multitude of fine gripping tasks. From pulling a needle through when repairing leather or webbing to collecting resin
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTI-100-X...835517?hash=item43c79e177d:g:iD0AAOSwHnFV3WkB
M
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTI-100-X...835517?hash=item43c79e177d:g:iD0AAOSwHnFV3WkB
M
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