Fabric fire retardants

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scruff

Maker
Jun 24, 2005
1,016
171
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West Yorkshire
Thanks. I've heard of your work, its pretty highly regarded on here. I wondered if as a producer you were subject to fire testing regulations or is it just through the risk assesments of the end user? (does that make sense??)

ps. I just noticed your link to that tea site on another thread. Cheers :You_Rock_
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,637
S. Lanarkshire
Fire retardant is one of those topics that I discuss with the person/site who has commissioned me. I don't guarantee the fire retardant but I will give them all the available details of any treatments that the cloth has been subject to. Risk assessment and it's implementation, after I've finished, is up to them.

My own clothing and equipment I prepare according to practicalities, I don't usually mention that I routinely use fire retardant but it's something I'm familiar enough with that if I find it requested in a brief/ Health & Safety/ Risk Assessment, I can deal with it.
Sometimes the stuff itself is considered more hazardous than the risk :rolleyes:

Do you work with Fire/ H & S or Risk Assessments too, then?

Cheers,
Toddy
 

scruff

Maker
Jun 24, 2005
1,016
171
43
West Yorkshire
Well I'm qualified as a Fire Scientist. Fire safety, law, testing, risk assessments, building assessments, H&S etc. are somewhat engrained into my nogging.

My particular area of expertise is technically Fire Investigation; forensic analysis for incendiaries, chemicals and the like. Its not like CSI, its twidling knobs and dials most of the time.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,637
S. Lanarkshire
Oh excellent!
So.....since this is a bushcraft site maybe we ought to be asking you about natural fire accelerants rather than retardants? :D

Cheers,
Toddy
 

scruff

Maker
Jun 24, 2005
1,016
171
43
West Yorkshire
Toddy said:
Oh excellent!
So.....since this is a bushcraft site maybe we ought to be asking you about natural fire accelerants rather than retardants? :D

Cheers,
Toddy

:lmao: :nana: :lmao:

i have to say that ironically some of my fire lighting skills suck :eek: well my bow drilling anyway :rolleyes:
 

match

Settler
Sep 29, 2004
707
8
Edinburgh
Being heavily involved in the production of Beltane Fire Festival we regularly go through quite alot of fire retardant spray every year :) What I can say about it is this:

Its borax-based, and is quite a nasty chemical when wet - the instructions all recommend use of gloves, well-ventilated areas, etc

It only works for those materials that are slightly absorbent - it won't work as a surface coating on say goretex or waterproofs.

It works by drying out, leaving borax crystals trapped in the fibres - these stop small heat spuirces causinng ignition (i.e cigarettes, sparks etc) but will not stop material burning if held to a lighted flame. It also doesn't in any way stop the heat transferring to the cloth, it just reduces its ignition risk, so hot sparks that stick to fabric will still smoulder and burn holes through the material.

If the material is wet, the fire retardant leeches out - if it is very wet, this leeches onto the person wearing the fabric, and the weak boric acid causes skin irritation and minor burns :( I've experienced this wearing a fireproofed cloak in the rain and it itches like mad :eek:

All in all, I would probably just prefer to have small scorch marks on a fleece than boric acid on my skin - its messy to apply, has to dry for 24 hours, stops working if it rains, and won't really stop small black scorch marks appearing on fleeces anyway if you do get hit by a spark from a fire - it'd just make sure you don't go up in flames if your fleece is highly flammable.

(As an aside, at the festival we ban all man-made materials from performer's costumes, so wool/cotton only, and we /still/ fire-proof them, and they /still/ get marked and scorched :rolleyes:
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I work around fires very frequently, often in loose fitting clothing of wool, linen or sometimes silk.

There is only really one way to make them fire retardent.......Don't set them on fire!

Inattention, distraction and drink are the things that put you at real risk around a fire.

Pay attention to the fire, your clothing and others around the fire at all times.

If you have a drink in your hand don't be afraid to throw it at someone if they catch a bad spark.

If the fire is sparking think. Do you need to be that close to it or does it need to be better controlled.

Synthetic fabrics are not that much more flammable than natural ones. The big difference is what happens when they do ignite.

The fastest destruction of clothing I have ever seen was a pair of polycotton trousers that got peppered with sparks when someone shook a burning log.

They looked like they had been eaten by hundreds of moths.

I suspect that if they had been pure cotton they would have just been scorched but the synthetic element melted very quickly.

Pure synthetics tend to melt faster than they burn and the dips can be nasty. Silk burns very quickly too.

Wool seems to smoulder slowly but is very smelly which has saved a few tunics and cloaks I have seen.
 

scruff

Maker
Jun 24, 2005
1,016
171
43
West Yorkshire
Wayland said:
If you have a drink in your hand don't be afraid to throw it at someone if they catch a bad spark.

Perhaps not if its a spirit though.

Wayland said:
Wool seems to smoulder slowly but is very smelly which has saved a few tunics and cloaks I have seen.

Mmmmm burning wool....cyanide!
 

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