External frame packs

[AuldJum]

Was having a discussion with my grandson today about internal and external frame backpacks.

When i was a young man external frame packs were the norm rather than the exception which has reversed itself over the past decade or two.

I can understand the reasons for internal frames in backpacking where an external frame isn't needed.

For our purposes the external frame pack has a lot more uses than the internal.

Obviously an internal frame is lighter but for our purposes the external is surely better.

Whats your opinion?

 

[johnboy]

I think it's basically down to the fact that manufacturers produce what people want to buy...Internal frame packs became somewhat de rigueur after they were introduced for alpinism and on big peaks...

If you're trying to squeeze up an off width of chimney on the tango towers you probably do not want the problems of an external frame getting caught up.So most European manufacturers dropped external frames as an option with the odd exception such as Norrona. They became desperately out of fashion and were the sort of thing that Campri made and you got out of Mums John Moores catalogue with a seat built into the frame

The American manufacturers still produce quite a few external frame packs. I have used a Hallmark (Hallmark were a Kiwi company similar to Macpac) external frame pack over here an 'Everest Featherweight' and it was very good and comfy... You find a lot of old external framed packs over here a lot have had the frame modified with a threaded bung as it was quite common practice to use the frame to hold fuel for your cooking stove I'm not sure if folk did that in that in the UK....

My view is external frames are ok as long as you get a good one...same as internal frames really.

 

[AuldJum]

In the 50's when i was growing up the woodsman at the time swore by external frame packs as well as a lot of hunters.

The ability to detach the frame to make the transportation of firewood, building materials, transporting game and any animal you've killed or trapped.

A good frame will easily take 200 lbs so even things like deer and pigs can be moved using them.

Maybe it is a fashion thing, style over substance it seems.

 

[johnboy]

Yep on a lot of the older external frame packs it was pretty easy to remove the frame from the pack itself.. same with a lot of the Military external frames like the GS and SAS/Para Bergens and the US Alice packs...On the newer external frames separating the frame from the pack is a bit more difficult...

 

[PDA1]

I think that to a great extent it as Auldjum states - a fashion thing. Internal frame packs are narrow, have all sorts of compression straps, nett pockets and , sometimnes, a multitude of zips. Partitioned (using more and more fairly heavy fabric) to make organizing "easy". And the original reason Lowe developed it, narrow and close to the body for climbing. How many of us climb rock? An external frame may well be the best way to transfer load from shoulders to hips, and the frame won't buckle if you overload it. Most say they are heavy, well look at this one made by a correspondent on Backpacking light
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...d/43311/index.html?skip_to_post=446360#446360

A frame which can carry up to 100 litres and weighing 11 ounces. Looks pretty cool to me (handsome is as handsome does, as thye say). Brilliant design and execution IMHO.

 

[Miyagi]

External frames for me Jum.

I've still got my GS Bergan, my Cobmaster backpack and a Swedish Army with external frame.

Having said that, I've gone back to my first love - a bomb proof Berghaus Cyclops


Liam

 

[santaman2000]

I prefer external frames. They just feel better and the space between by back and the pack allows cooling air flow. As for transferring the load to my hips: well that's another matter. It doesn't matter whether it's an internal or external frame; the "hip" belts ride around my naval and is more or less useless on both.

 

[garethw]

Hi there
I have to agree I prefer a nice external frame pack, but they are few and far between these days. The US military still produces and uses external frame packs... They are still favoured because of their modularity. You want to add bits just strap them on..Bits get ripped or broken and you change them... straps and belts are buckled on and not sewn.

This is why I'm a big fan of military packs. Yes they are heavier, but they are practical and tough. I have a modified Alice pack on a plastic Molle style frame with Molle straps & kidney belt, but you can get the standard Molle ll packs, in various configurations on the net.
I think the consensus is that the framed packs can be loaded more than the internal frame packs for carrying heavy gear like ammo and other military hardware.
For my use I find this a really good pack... the pockets and the way it opens up to give access to the main compartment are a real boon. I hate the tube type mountain packs.. many hiking packs are based on this design.

Contrary to what Santaman states I find that with the straps set right, the weight of my pack is transferred to my hips very well and greatly helps with the carry. I just keep the belt fairly tight and it relieves my shoulder greatly.. (this was the main problem of the standard Alice Pack.) The new plastic frame stops the pack from moving too much, (a problem with the alli frames) as it rides closer to your back.

Cheers
Gareth

 

[rik_uk3]

My first pack was an ex army frame you just strapped bags/tents to, very good it was. I then got an American pack, Astro...Astral?...something Trails? something like that, then my last proper one was a Joe Brown sold by Blacks which was by far the best and massive.

 

[Hoodoo]

I still prefer an external frame pack for large loads, especially now that you can get much lighter ones. Some makers like kelty make a large external that is significantly lighter than many internal frame packs. I love my kelty 50th anniversary pack.

 

[Dangerous Dan]

I'm a recent convert to the external frame, again one of those plastic MOLLE jobbies. The internals are good at what they do but I have often wish I could modify them in some way or another. I find the external frame gives me the flexibility I want, makes loading irregular shaped objects so much easier. Because I've made the actual pack itself I can add and remove components to suite the activity.

Johnboy mentioned the new MOLLE packs can be a pig to remove from the frame which is very true. I dropped those fiddly little butterfly clips for a slightly longer bit of webbing and a ladderlock. The tape goes through the frame twice to provide the strength and uses the ladderlock soley to keep the end tidy. Attaching or removing the pack is a simple 2 minute job and means I can then use it to lug wood and water with ease.

There is a small weight penalty but for the degree of flexibility I'm very happy with mine

 

[Tristar777]

I have three external frame packs. The US Alice pack (large) which i find real comfy with no mods on the straps or belt etc. An old Karrimor with the two pack system attached to the frame and a SAS A frame which holds approx the same capacity as a medium Alice. Ive had these for quite a while and wouldnt go back to internal frames again!

 

[Mastino]

I still love my Haglos Alaska and LK70, both external frame, simple & rugged. The only drawback is that if you have to traverse thick bush you'll have to watch out for snagging etc.

 

[PDA1]

Just to show that external frame can be super mod and such, here's one in cuben reinforced cloth and carbon fibre (arrow shafts) frame. Only USD 250

http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/exo.shtml

COncept is sound, and looks easy to make. Hmm - winter project perhaps?

 

[BoonDoc]

External frame, definitely. I still have my mil issued ruck and it still works well.

The external frame allows more air to circulate through your back as you wear it. The newer internal frames tend to cause a very wet back.

 

[Graham_S]

I have a LK70 (with the straps replaced with MOLLE straps)
I think it's great for heavy loads. I'd like a better bag on the frame though.
The side pockets are hopeless.

 

[santaman2000]

...Contrary to what Santaman states I find that with the straps set right, the weight of my pack is transferred to my hips very well and greatly helps with the carry. I just keep the belt fairly tight and it relieves my shoulder greatly...

I think most people will probably agree with you. My problem was/is my body's build; I have short legs and a long torso so the "hip" belts (of any pack or frame combo) is never actually on my hips but rather around my navel or lower ribs.

Nevertheless, I still prefer external frame packs also.