Eustace Conway (mountainman) facing charges over Bushcraft school

[Rod Paradise]

Eustace Conway has lived in the wilderness of the Appalachian Mountains for 30 years, detached from modern society. Now, he wants to teach others his survival skills – but the state of North Carolina has slammed him with a series of violations.
The 51-year-old man has traveled from coast to coast on a horse, faced down a grizzly bear, defeated a thrashing buck with his bare hands, grown his own food, hunted game, made clothes out of animal skin, and survived harsh winters on snow-capped mountains.
Few are as qualified as Conway to teach basic survival skills. After 30 years in the wild, Conway set up a camp called “Turtle Island” to show kids how he lived in the wilderness – from cooking on fire to gathering herbal medicines. But in November 2012, the state of North Carolina forced Turtle Island to shut down, on grounds that the camp violated building code regulations.
“These buildings aren’t fit for public use,” Joseph A. Furman, Watauga County planning director, told the Wall Street Journal. Conway’s camp includes primitive facilities that he says are free from modern trappings. He built them himself, and says that “codes don’t apply to what we’re doing” at Turtle Island. But the state is preventing anyone from escaping its iron grip, in terms of what qualifies as a ‘building’.
“Modern inspectors know how to measure a board, but not how to build a building,” he told the WSJ.
The Watauga County planning department has slammed Conway with a 78-page report outlining the health and sanitary violations of Turtle Island. The county claims that Conway’s open-air kitchen and toilets made of sawdust are not permissible for a public facility. And unless the common area has a conventional restroom, fire sprinklers and smoke detectors, his entire camp must remain shut down.
Even though Conway has proved his self-reliability and even been featured in a History Channel show called “Mountain Men”, he is being forced to adhere to conventional modern society – if he wants to avoid prosecution, that is.
The shutdown of the camp has angered Conway and nearly 13,000 supporters who have signed an online petition, asking the North Carolina Building Codes Council to change its codes to exempt structures like Turtle Island.
“The very building techniques and materials that all of our ancestors thrived with are now being deemed unacceptable and targeted as illegal because they don’t fit into the cookie-cutter code status that is so extremely far from what we are about,” the change.org petition reads. “…The invasive attack [by the county] was a surreal wake-up call to the illusion of the American myth: ‘Land of the free.’”
Conway is now facing the threat of criminal charges for running a camp that didn’t comply with modern society’s strict building codes. The 51-year-old had saved up money he raised from speaking engagements and survival courses to purchase the 1,000-acre property that he called Turtle Island. But despite his ownership, survival skills, and the purpose of the wilderness camp, the county is threatening to prosecute him unless he upgrades his buildings to conform to the modern age.
“If this was a joke or something out of a science fiction novel about corrupt government control, maybe I could laugh about it… but it is very, unbelievably, maliciously true,” the petition quoted Conway saying. “And I can only cry about it, and ask for the voice of friends to support me and citizens that care about the ‘American Dream’ of freedom to speak up for their rights and interests now.”

Shocking small-minded behaviour from the County Officials (so nearly misspelled that).

Trying to find the petition to post up a link....

 

[Rod Paradise]

http://www.change.org/petitions/nor...o-exempt-structures-at-turtle-island-preserve

Petition link if anyone wants to add their voice....

 

[Andy BB]

...anyone want to guess how long it'll be before a UK elf and safety "expert" does the same thing over here?

 

[crosslandkelly]

Tick box bureaucracy. Commonsense out of the window.

 

[bob_the_baker]

On the whole I applaud his lifestyle choice and I respect his skills and ingenuity. I, personally, could spend some very enjoyable and worthwhile time at Turtle Island.

However okenest:, to help support his lifestyle, he runs kids summer camps, teaching them how to live off the land. Kids running around in and out of barns that may, or may not be, structurally sound and questionable sanitary conditions (bearing in mind kids aren't that sanitary in the first place) to be honest I am amazed he has been going this long. I know if one of my kids came back from a summer camp with food poisoning or crushed anatomical parts from a collapsing structure I would not be best pleased.

If it was just him and some like minded families/individuals, then fine. But as a business with paying guests.... I dunno.

Good luck to him, he's going to need it

 

[Elen Sentier]

yes, saw on FB - damned officiousness! Of course, he's not part of their gang so Kill, kill, kill

 

[Elen Sentier]

http://www.change.org/petitions/nor...o-exempt-structures-at-turtle-island-preserve

Petition link if anyone wants to add their voice....

done and shared round my network - ta for link

 

[EdS]

sorry, but he is running a commercial organization and should of thought about the requirements first.

Its OK if it s just him or 1 or 2 guests but what number of people - especially kids are there. More people = more risk.

What happens if there is say an E. coli outbreak due to poor hygiene - a real possibility.

Its Ok wanting to "live like our ancestors" but that also means a lot of people are going to get sick and injured just like they did in the good old days.

 

[Toddy]

While I have sympathy for Mr Conway, I can see the other side of this too.

It's like being at camp with no clear latrine set up.
Fine if there are only three or four of you in the area, but things can rapidly go downhill when there are more, sort of thing.

He set the site up as a commercial venture; albeit with a 'natural' basis; but 'nature' is full of inconvenient buggits and bacterias that those who otherwise live modern lifestyles just do not encounter with any frequency but with a dose of the trots.

That's just one aspect of it too.....buildings that do not come up to code are frankly worrying.
Why do they not come up to code ? if it's simply heights and inconveniences then that's just character, if it's dorms that do not have fire exits then it's another thing entirely.
If it's open fires without proper ventilation, that's beyond worrying.
Kitchen and food prep areas ? for groups of people, that's a huge concern in it's own right. Folks manage successfully with commercial bbq's though, and they're outdoors, so it's not rocket science to sort it out.

At the end of the day, someone was concerned enough to instigate the investigation that led to this sorry state of affairs.

Perhaps it would be more productive if people offered to help Mr Conway bring his site up to code for the commercial use that he has intended it to be used for.

Character, 'natural', outdoors, salt of the earth, though it may all be; at the end of the day, the law says that he has to adhere to the same level of safety and hygiene that other businesses do.
He stepped outside the box enough to create something rather special a shame to fail because he can't overcome the hurdles that everyone else does.

Mary

 

[Andy BB]

True - I expect we all need more detailed info before going off on one - me included! For example, what exactly are the violations to code referring to? A snow-hole or leaf-litter lean-to (cos lets face it, no shelter you build in the wild is going to be code-compliant!)? Or a large multi-storey dorm for kids? Is his camp-fire cooking being condemned because woodsmoke is carcinogenic, or because he's keeping meat in unsanitary conditions? Are they saying there are NO code-compliant toilets, or that digging and using a "long-drop" is forbidden?

 

[The Joker]

Listen to yourselves, your all sounding like the machine. Government brain washing is obviously working lol. What ever happened to personal choice (I smoke, I know its bad, but its my choice)
If I wanted to go to Turtle Island with my family, I would look at my surroundings and if I decided I didn't like the safety of the buildings or washing facility's I'd make my choice and maybe leave and if you cant see what is safe or not.....Well natural selection!.
If I was going to send my son there to learn primitive skills I would certainly visit first and if I didn't like what I sore, then my son would not be going.
No one is making people go there!
One of the reasons people get so readily ill these days is everything is so clinical we're just not building up our antibodies.
God forbid but If I stayed there with my family and something bad happened to one of us, at the end of the day being reasonably intelligent human beings, we knew the risks so it would be my fault.
I signed the petition because I really think Eustace is providing something special and that because of red tape will not be with us much longer, sad very, very sad.

 

[Stringmaker]

Unfortunately, personal choice has nothing to do with it; if he is running a commercial operation then like it or not he has a duty of care to those whose money he takes. His undoubted experience and competence is not in question, but there have to be minimum standards if there are loads of people passing through the site.

As Toddy and Andy posted, what exactly is the detail of why "The Machine" is getting involved?

Don't forget, we're talking about the US here; they virtually invented litigation!

 

[treadlightly]

He has set something up which appears to be outside the system. By definition that system will not tolerate it. The system is set up for the greater good and will not countenance exceptions to its rule. Whether having strictly enforced systems for the greater good is in fact in the interests of the greater good is the debatable point.

I too would like to know more detail.

 

[Rod Paradise]

The fact that the land is worth a lot of money (multi-millionsdevelopment just a few miles away might have something to do with the attack of many small complaints.

If it was just codes then a couple of County clerks could have called round and went through it with him, instead of a raft of armed agents with a helicopter.

Someone will make money out of it if they shut him down.

 

[Shovel]

While i like what he is doing, it would be nice if he met board requirements, and had sprinklers, smoke alarms, etc. It could help him continue teaching.

 

[The Joker]

Unfortunately, personal choice has nothing to do with it; if he is running a commercial operation then like it or not he has a duty of care to those whose money he takes. His undoubted experience and competence is not in question, but there have to be minimum standards if there are loads of people passing through the site.

As Toddy and Andy posted, what exactly is the detail of why "The Machine" is getting involved?

Don't forget, we're talking about the US here; they virtually invented litigation!

But what ever happened to common sense. When I am in my own home I try and teach my son what I believe is right and what is wrong and safe or dangerous, I also take in to consideration what society dictates and then I make my decision.
The way our nanny culture is going we wont be able to make decisions because they will all be made for us, we will just wander around like sheeple doing as we are told.
I'm not saying Eustace can do what ever he wants regardless of the consequence, what I am saying is don't take our choices away from us. Surely we all have the right to decided what we believe is right and then on that basis make what we believe to be the right decision.
Maybe a little guidance is what is needed ie- Eustace should let people be aware that his property and teachings do not necessarily conform to what the government dictates.
The whole litigation thing....Well if there was ever something that needed reviewing and capping, this is it.

Good discussion BTW

 

[Bushwhacker]

I like these folk, they live nearby. http://www.economads.com/log20020524-20020531.php

Do their buildings come up to folks' ever so demanding standards?

 

[Hibrion]

It does seem to be a bit much. Maybe he should just cover all his buildings in canvas, call them tents and then they will leave him alone!

 

[Stringmaker]

But what ever happened to common sense. When I am in my own home I try and teach my son what I believe is right and what is wrong and safe or dangerous, I also take in to consideration what society dictates and then I make my decision.
The way our nanny culture is going we wont be able to make decisions because they will all be made for us, we will just wander around like sheeple doing as we are told.
I'm not saying Eustace can do what ever he wants regardless of the consequence, what I am saying is don't take our choices away from us. Surely we all have the right to decided what we believe is right and then on that basis make what we believe to be the right decision.
Maybe a little guidance is what is needed ie- Eustace should let people be aware that his property and teachings do not necessarily conform to what the government dictates.
The whole litigation thing....Well if there was ever something that needed reviewing and capping, this is it.

I absolutely agree with you; it SHOULD just be a question of personal choice as to the level of risk, but he can't control that.

In your own home, the ultimate accountability for the activities therein lie with you. You can assess risk, control it and decide what is acceptable, then mentor and educate your son. Another way of putting it is that there is one straight line from you to your son.

In a sensible world(!) one compromise would be getting people to sign a disclaimer/waiver but the lawyers won't wear that.

 

[The Joker]

I absolutely agree with you; it SHOULD just be a question of personal choice as to the level of risk, but he can't control that.

In your own home, the ultimate accountability for the activities therein lie with you. You can assess risk, control it and decide what is acceptable, then mentor and educate your son. Another way of putting it is that there is one straight line from you to your son.

In a sensible world(!) one compromise would be getting people to sign a disclaimer/waiver but the lawyers won't wear that.

Agreed! but I think Rod Paradise hit the nail on the head. Using Eustace's practices and health and safety against him knowing darn well he cant afford to make the changes or pay the taxes, thus evicting him from his land because at the end of the day 1000acres got to be worth millions$$$$.
I also think its hilarious and so OVER the top to send in armed agents and a helicopter...hahahaha!