Espalier Trained Fruit Trees.

[TeeDee]

I have a long boundary edge that would allow the planting of a few Fruit Trees but planted in a Trained Espalier style.

My question is , do certain Fruit species benefit or produce more from being trained in a forced Espalier way or rather do some species suffer from being trained?

Or does it quite literally make no difference at all?

I'm not too sure what to go for yet but I'm thinking of something less conventional than Apples & Pears.

Thank You.

 

[Toddy]

If you do it right, and they have both enough water and light, that last bit matters a lot because you're cutting down on the amount of branch spread they can have, then they do very well I find.
Make sure you get something suitable though, dwarf is really a good idea on these.
Plums are excellent apples and pears are easy this way too. I know you asked for something else though.
I'm told (by an Italian friend) that oranges and lemons do well, and if you can grow peaches and apricots then they can be excellent...why they grew well in the old cold glass houses.

 

[TeeDee]

If you do it right, and they have both enough water and light, that last bit matters a lot because you're cutting down on the amount of branch spread they can have, then they do very well I find.
Make sure you get something suitable though, dwarf is really a good idea on these.
Plums are excellent apples and pears are easy this way too. I know you asked for something else though.
I'm told (by an Italian friend) that oranges and lemons do well, and if you can grow peaches and apricots then they can be excellent...why they grew well in the old cold glass houses.

Thanks Toddy .

Yes was thinking of Plums. Apples tend to be super cheap to purchase and I don't tend to eat that many Pears.

I may well consider Lemons as I do use the fruit in a lot of cooking and drinks.

They would be planted alongside a small water course so water shouldn't be an issue and I think they will get enough Sun.

Is there a point of diminishing returns in terms length of trainable growth to produce? I mean I could plant a single tree and plant it laterally but would I be able to train it to 50ft either side of the main trunk and would it actually produce as much as having Three smaller trees in the same area?


EDIT - I meant to say , the supermarket less than a mile away has Gage , Medlar , Peach trees growing in the car park ( although the benefit from having brick walls behind acting as Thermal Mass ) - So my thinking is if its possible there , it should be possible here.

 

[Paul_B]

I have a back yard that is a sun trap in early season good weather. A few hot summers when I first moved in got me thinking if espalier fruit trees. Positively sweltering in the yard at times.

Being tarmac it would have been container grown so I decided against it. I'm not always there to water in the summer. Water is so important as well as light.

My grandad had an apricot bush which fruits once. He lived in Southampton so got the best of UK weather. Just didn't get enough to fruit. Whatever it missed I've no idea.

 

[Toddy]

I liked the espalier plum, but it was a lot of fuss to keep it in order. They 'want' to grow out, they don't really want to be 2D, if I make myself clear ?

There's also their roots to consider, especially at a boundary. You haven't said if it's a fence or a wall or open. I'm presuming it's a fence, because a wall shades as well as protects and you didn't mention. Thing about a fence is that it has two sides, and you'd need to prune both, and if the other side is the one that gets most light, that's the side the tree will try to grow to.

On the whole, best agin a wall or a solid fence. On an open fence you can get a much better crop because even though the tree is trained along it, both sides will get light, even if one does better than the other, but your wires/stakes have to take the weight of the branches to keep them trained straight. Once established they're fairly stable, but they'll always try to reach for the light and the bigger the tree, the more quickly it'll grow.
I think I preferred the fan shape rather than sideways espalier.

You might find it easier just to plant fruit trees that have been grafted onto very dwarf stock. There are some truly excellent varieties around nowadays, and with the internet for searches it's a lot easier to see what's available and ask questions of the Growers.

A 4m tree doesn't sound that high. Yesterday I picked a crate of apples of my wee tree...it's not quite 4m, and trust me on this, it's too high to pick easily unless you have, and can use (my shoulders, elbows and wrists ache today) one of the fruit picker poles with the net bag on the end.
If I ever grow another I'd aim for no more than 3m at the very most.

Sorry @TeeDee I don't think I'm being of much help. I think this is maybe more of a question for folks like BR. I have a small garden really, it's just rather packed

 

[TeeDee]

I liked the espalier plum, but it was a lot of fuss to keep it in order. They 'want' to grow out, they don't really want to be 2D, if I make myself clear ?

There's also their roots to consider, especially at a boundary. You haven't said if it's a fence or a wall or open. I'm presuming it's a fence, because a wall shades as well as protects and you didn't mention. Thing about a fence is that it has two sides, and you'd need to prune both, and if the other side is the one that gets most light, that's the side the tree will try to grow to.

On the whole, best agin a wall or a solid fence. On an open fence you can get a much better crop because even though the tree is trained along it, both sides will get light, even if one does better than the other, but your wires/stakes have to take the weight of the branches to keep them trained straight. Once established they're fairly stable, but they'll always try to reach for the light and the bigger the tree, the more quickly it'll grow.
I think I preferred the fan shape rather than sideways espalier.

You might find it easier just to plant fruit trees that have been grafted onto very dwarf stock. There are some truly excellent varieties around nowadays, and with the internet for searches it's a lot easier to see what's available and ask questions of the Growers.

A 4m tree doesn't sound that high. Yesterday I picked a crate of apples of my wee tree...it's not quite 4m, and trust me on this, it's too high to pick easily unless you have, and can use (my shoulders, elbows and wrists ache today) one of the fruit picker poles with the net bag on the end.
If I ever grow another I'd aim for no more than 3m at the very most.

Sorry @TeeDee I don't think I'm being of much help. I think this is maybe more of a question for folks like BR. I have a small garden really, it's just rather packed

Its would be for a boundary edge that is the edge of a Lawn that runs alongside a long straight stream. The stream is in a Gully some 3/4 ft below the Lawn edge. So maintenance would be easy to do from both sides as long as I've my wellies on.

One of the reasons is I want the root structure to help stabilise the bank ( where lawn meets stream ) as winter water flow can be fairly strong and eat into the bank.

A natural fruit producing hedge line is an added bonus.

 

[Toddy]

You mean to make a fence 'of' the espaliers ?
Sounds good
Watch the height, if they're at all shaded, they'll really try to reach.

Not sure if these roots would be the ideal thing to stablise though. Plums don't like sitting really wet (why mine don't thrive well) and dwarf trees really need free draining, especially in Winter. They suffer if their roots get waterlogged too long.
You might be better to look at trees that are naturally happy at the waters edge. They do stabilise the soil because otherwise they'd be washed away themselves. Not sure what fruit trees would do there though.

Sometimes you can only try it and see.

M

 

[Paul_B]

I think I read that some fruits do better with the arms diagonal and others cope with horizontal better. That's fan grown for some, espalier for others.

I was walking by a stream at the edge of derwent water recently and they'd put in boardwalk but at the side on the stream bank they'd poked sticks into the ground. I noticed some had been there longer as they had grown into a little tree. I reckon they're a type of willow. I know people use sticks of willow stuck into dodgy earth banks to stabilise. Willow grows readily from cut sticks I believe. First read about it in the ICE journal 20 years ago or more ago. Apparently very successful on road construction sites to get a quick, natural stabilisation.

 

[Broch]

The only fruit we have grown along the fence is Tayberry and it does very well but it does get plenty of sunshine.

 

[slowworm]

I would think Lemons wouldn't survive a UK winter outside wherever you are. The don't like cold and wet.

I would still look at apples, but a very early ripening variety that never seems to taste very good from a shop as they taste best straight off the tree. Or a variety that's hard to find in a supermarket such as Pitmaston Pineapple.

 

[Woody girl]

I know you probably don't want a hedge as you want access to the stream. But I would be planting a few willows to stabilise the bank. It grows quickly and has many uses such as firewood weaving and carving etc. I'd also be planting things like damson and hazel nuts. Have a look at native fruiting trees and plant those to make a fruiting hedge with some gaps to be able to access the stream.
Probably not what you want but that's what I would do myself.

 

[TeeDee]

I've had a rethink on this - planted Willow and something else at the streams edge and its thriving and seems to be doing what I intended and desired - = win!!!

Now thinking of moving the Espaliers to a different location.
10m ( 12m with two corner returns ) run of close board fencing facing South - plenty of sun and watering shouldn't be an issue.

My main question , and I suspect its of the 'depends' answering stock is what is optimal for growing an Espalier in terms of width and height?

If I had 12 m available - Ideally - I'd like to get Three different trees in there - 4m width sounds , well it sounds like its 4m - but is 4m enough?

Also Height - if I can't grow them as wide as I'd like ( because I'm being greedy ) can try to grow them higher? say 3m high by 4m wide?

Or would I just be better giving 6m width to two trees with space in between and count my blessings?

 

[Pattree]

As you say, much depends upon the root stock. Four meters should be fine for a domestic rootstock. 2M in each direction. You’ll be pruning espaliers anyway so you decide how wide.

You might get 3M height unless you’ve bought something on an extreme dwarfing stock. They were very popular twenty odd years ago but rare beasts now (I think). My knowledge of stocks is way out of date.

My knowledge of varieties is also out of date but avoid tip bearing species like Worcester Permaine and Golden Russet (Plant Merton Russet or modern equivalent.)
Many nurseries try to sell apple trees in threes for pollination. When I told a customer that there was plenty of pollen around her estate if she only planted one tree, she said she wanted to be self sufficient!!!!
If you are anywhere near other apple trees pollination isn’t a problem. Crab apples count

 

[Broch]

Figs and grapes?

 

[TeeDee]

Figs and grapes?

I may do a Fig tree - picked up a nice semi -trained espalier over the weekend - a little small but will come on.

Grapes I would lover to do and have given some thought to just running it across the top of the most vertical elements to maximise it all. Do you have Grapes Broch?

 

[Broch]

I may do a Fig tree - picked up a nice semi -trained espalier over the weekend - a little small but will come on.

Grapes I would lover to do and have given some thought to just running it across the top of the most vertical elements to maximise it all. Do you have Grapes Broch?

Sadly, no. Despite being on the south facing slope of a hill we don't have ideal conditions. We are very exposed getting the full force of the Westerlies. I've always fancied the idea of a walled garden but there's nowhere sensible to put one up here.

 

[Pattree]

Just picked up a small fig tree for son in law in Didcot. They have grapes growing like weeds along their front drive fence.

It’s a strange area. We just cannot grow hollyhocks here. They have them growing everywhere including the street gutters. The pavement is walled off from the road by them.

Maybe that’s the test. If you can grow hollyhocks you can grow grapes.

 

[Paul_B]

I know someone in Milnthorpe Cumbria/Lancashire border area who has a very compact, south facing garden that's decking boards above tarmac or paving. They grow out of big, tubs, boxes, crates, etc. They go all around the area used for seating. Trees are growing from below the decking too. It is seriously very, very productive as in providing a lot of fruit and veg for the family of 4 people.

On the house, growing right up so vigorously they have to prune at the windows every year, they have a grape vine. It covers the back completely. It also produces so much fruits they struggle to eat them and are actively thinking of making wine or wine vinegar or both out of the excess.

This is south Cumbria and it gets lots of summer rain, wind and shoot weather too. They have plums, gage and other fruits too. As I said the owners are amazing people the way they get so much from such a very tiny space.

 

[Falstaff]

I picked up two triple grafted trees, one with 3 types of apple and the other 3 types of conference pear from my local garden centre. Apparently this also gets over the problem of pollination as each of the 3 are supposed to pollinate each other. I didn't buy them as espaleirs but I'm training them into two fans as a lawn divider. No pears this first year but some decent apples off each type.