Environment, Action and the Old Days

[Janne]

A thought: vehicle manufacturers were forced to equip vehicles with Catalysts, to remove the CO and hydro carbon particles.
The engines now produce water and CO2.

Also, the making of catalysts is quite energy heavy.

Does the benefits outweigh the negative? Would it not be better for the overall health of Earth to stop fitting them?
(CO2 is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO.)

 

[santaman2000]

Yeah,
Everyone is dying, so it is no problem to the person who contracts cancer thanks to a relative's second hand smoking. They should have chosen their relatives more carefully.

I could try to make another analogy, but if you are able to cheerful misunderstand the volumes of science published, and not understand how a rapid accelerating change differs from a slower stead change...nothing I say will make a difference.

The fact that nothing you say (or any of us) or do will make any difference is largely the point.

-As said, climate change has been going on ever since the earth formed and we’re not going to stop it.
-Maybe we’ve accelerated it, maybe not (whether it’s speed is steady or varying is basically unstudied
-Even if we could somehow control it, it still wouldn’t matter . There are other threats of greater impact that are less predictable (the irony of getting climate change under control before the overdue eruption of Yellowstone)

 

[Janne]

In Europe, we have Mount Vesuvius. Overdue, will ruin some great history, and some stunning beaches....
Plus kill lots and lots of people. Naples can not be evacuated efficiently.

But I think there are some benefits with large eruptions, as the particles emitted contribute to a cooler atmosphere for a decade or so. After Krakatoa, the Earth became considerably cooler for decades.

What I find interesting is how so many people are hysterical about various environmental issues, but do absolutely Zero that is of any use or help whatsoever.. In many cases these people are some of the greatest 'polluters', or their action leads to an increased negative impact.

.

 

[Janne]

The 'Old Days' bit in the title, does it refer to the carelessness and total disregard humans had for Nature ( + Earth) in the old days?

OMG, the generations born before the 60's did some serious harm! I used to tell my dad that his Generation, to get a good life post WW2, ruined the Earth.

But, I suspect that what we do today, 'knowing' it is the correct, environmentally acceptable way, will be shown to be wrong.
I touched on the catalyst problem. Vehicles of today emit a huge amount of CO2. Not good.
But - nobody is mentioning it?

 

[GuestD]

What you say or do may do nothing, but doing nothing is worse. Now what about this flat earth ?

 

[santaman2000]

In Europe, we have Mount Vesuvius. Overdue, will ruin some great history, and some stunning beaches....
Plus kill lots and lots of people. Naples can not be evacuated efficiently.

But I think there are some benefits with large eruptions, as the particles emitted contribute to a cooler atmosphere for a decade or so. After Krakatoa, the Earth became considerably cooler for decades........

I don’t think you understand why I specifically referenced Yellowstone. When it does erupt it will be an extinction level event. Nowhere on the planet will survive he ensuing nuclear winter.

 

[santaman2000]

What you say or do may do nothing, but doing nothing is worse. Now what about this flat earth ?

So:
1) Going happily about your life (doing or saying nothing)
Is worse than
2) getting all worked up ranting over the inevitable.

 

[GuestD]

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169/yellowstone-supervolcano-eruption

 

[santaman2000]

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169/yellowstone-supervolcano-eruption

A bit more reliable source: https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/when-will-yellowstone-erupt-again

 

[Janne]

I know about Yellowstone. Been shown and mentioned, with increasingly stronger, DoomsDay scenario for what, 15 years?
TV, 'net, newspapers, magazines.

It might be a small, slow event, or a very catastrophic one. Nobody knows.

Good for Earth, bad for us. Even a relatively small one will contribute to a very cold Earth.
But not on an Extinction level. None of those are recorded (as far as I am aware) after the Yellowstone eruptions they know about.

The worst is, many of the Preppers will survive. Emerge from their shelters, blind, toothless, rachitic, with a bunch of inbred children.
They will rule the Earth.

 

[santaman2000]

I know about Yellowstone. Been shown and mentioned, with increasingly stronger, DoomsDay scenario for what, 15 years?
TV, 'net, newspapers, magazines.

It might be a small, slow event, or a very catastrophic one. Nobody knows.

Good for Earth, bad for us. Even a relatively small one will contribute to a very cold Earth.
But not on an Extinction level. None of those are recorded (as far as I am aware) after the Yellowstone eruptions they know about.

The worst is, many of the Preppers will survive. Emerge from their shelters, blind, toothless, rachitic, with a bunch of inbred children.
They will rule the Earth.

All three known eruptions were extinction level. Or at a level that would be extinction level.

 

[Janne]

Not a worldwide extinction level though?
Wikipedia lists the three last eruptions, and those seem to have (separately) formed the super caldera?
So no eruption where the whole super caldera erupted
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geK9mtUopd4UcAJRdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEydm8wcmcyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjg3MDZfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1569375022/RO=10/RU=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera/RK=2/RS=Bcv8wDan8TP9toDbNomlWr2j0KA-


Is it even possible for the whole area to go ? Enough stored energy and pressure for the whole area to erupt?

 

[demographic]

preppers... blind, toothless, rachitic, with a bunch of inbred children.

No change there then eh?

 

[Fadcode]

With the Earth being Flat, all we need is a rather large broom to sweep all this rubbish off the end,
and of course a extra large pan to collect it in,
Then we can debate exactly which colour rubbish bag
to put it in ti be recycled properly.
And of course someone( male or female, or bipolar, nonbipolar, metric or non metric, binary or non-binary, etc, etc, to push the brush, and hold he Pan
have to go lie down now, my head hurts........................lol

 

[petrochemicals]

Watch out...the under 21s are as likely to want to bring in a version of Carrousel per Logan's Run...maybe for people over 50. Think of all the benefits, far less stress on the NHS, all that housing that is held by older people opening up. More job opportunities for the young to move up.

Well err, in that case then, our houses are old and inefficient, so they are no good anyway. Also the death match will improve the genetic quality of the gene pool. Unfortunately we seem to be breeding in genetic problems into the populace with all the saving of lives etc. If you think about it killing off thoes who have already reproduced is pointless. Thinning the population to the healthy, allergy free, illness free is the only way to go.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/why-are-allergies-on-the-rise_uk_5acdd581e4b0259339ded67c

 

[petrochemicals]

All three known eruptions were extinction level. Or at a level that would be extinction level.

Not a worldwide extinction level though?
Wikipedia lists the three last eruptions, and those seem to have (separately) formed the super caldera?
So no eruption where the whole super caldera erupted
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geK9mtUopd4UcAJRdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEydm8wcmcyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjg3MDZfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1569375022/RO=10/RU=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera/RK=2/RS=Bcv8wDan8TP9toDbNomlWr2j0KA-


Is it even possible for the whole area to go ? Enough stored energy and pressure for the whole area to erupt?

With the population as is and the set up of the world very likely serious, us would be knackered anyhoo, europe is far enough north so it would be winter for a couple of years. China and india have no wiggle room to soak up impacts. Africa and south america would be the only places sparcely populated and removed enough to have any chance, and i dont rate thoes really.

 

[ManFriday4]

MOVED FROM
https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/in-the-news-today.150983/page-4#post-1910845
I posted these because they were interesting and in the news. Perhaps I should have known that a factual post from the BBC about an environmental issue would generate 80 odd posts, most of which are anything but useful.

As has been suggested, I have moved all the resulting dross out of the News thread and into its own space. Had I not done this, anyone who was following the News thread for interesting news would probably have quit in disgust. I know how I felt when I came back and saw the action and explosion of posts...none posting up any new news.

If I wasn't a moderator I might be tempted to post in support of some views expressed here, or against others. However, I am a moderator, so the thing that bothers me isn't the opposing views, but rather the way that they have been expressed, and how expressing them took over a thread.

Predictable indeed.

**************************************************************************************************************
ORIGINAL POST:

Climate Change.​

Gas used in high power electricity generation insulation 23,500 times more potent as a warming gas than CO2.​

"...leaks of the little-known gas in the UK and the rest of the EU in 2017 were the equivalent of putting an extra 1.3 million cars on the road"​

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49567197​

​

​

Hazel nut picking and child labour in Turkey....where your Nutella comes from.​

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49741675​

Why can't this & so much more about the 6th mass extinction not be discussed & why aren't mods actually controlling the abuse and stupid irrelevant comments?

 

[nigelp]

Why can't this & so much more about the 6th mass extinction not be discussed

Probably is on Reddit. They love a good ‘discussion’ over there.

 

[Woody girl]

I want to have a reasonable discussin about climate change, its impact on our and our children's lives and not have to suffer the frankly aggressive and rude remarks of certain members who seem to think certain opinions are stupid and we should be listening to them, but they shouldn't have to listen to us who are concerned about this subject.
Let's just try and be a bit more grown up and mature instead of hurling insults just because someone doesn't have the same opinion . That's what discussion is.
Hurling insults is just so immature, and I had better expectations of the calibre of members here. I suppose I should have known better, but honestly, I'm having much more fun watching Canadian prepper panic about ww3 that reading certain posters remarks here.

I have joined many protest groups, about many different things, from Greenham common women , saving trees, to stop the war and I can assure those that think everyone is jobless and claiming benefits is wrong.
Generalised comments when you have never been anywhere near such a throng, or talked to them civilly , is just prejudice .
So is insulting and trying to derail climate change conversations.
Please, let's try and be civil, even if we don't agree.
I don't expect or demand agreement on everything, but I also don't expect insulting and derogatory comments, and they need to be called out.
That isn't being one sided, that's demanding civility.
OK. Sermon over!
I'm done, off to bed, and hope a good night's sleep and a little reflection from some might change the tone to one of civil conversation.
After all, this is a serious problem that affects us all.
Believer and sceptic alike.

 

[ManFriday4]

I want to have a reasonable discussin about climate change, its impact on our and our children's lives and not have to suffer the frankly aggressive and rude remarks of certain members who seem to think certain opinions are stupid and we should be listening to them, but they shouldn't have to listen to us who are concerned about this subject.
Let's just try and be a bit more grown up and mature instead of hurling insults just because someone doesn't have the same opinion . That's what discussion is.
Hurling insults is just so immature, and I had better expectations of the calibre of members here. I suppose I should have known better, but honestly, I'm having much more fun watching Canadian prepper panic about ww3 that reading certain posters remarks here.

I have joined many protest groups, about many different things, from Greenham common women , saving trees, to stop the war and I can assure those that think everyone is jobless and claiming benefits is wrong.
Generalised comments when you have never been anywhere near such a throng, or talked to them civilly , is just prejudice .
So is insulting and trying to derail climate change conversations.
Please, let's try and be civil, even if we don't agree.
I don't expect or demand agreement on everything, but I also don't expect insulting and derogatory comments, and they need to be called out.
That isn't being one sided, that's demanding civility.
OK. Sermon over!
I'm done, off to bed, and hope a good night's sleep and a little reflection from some might change the tone to one of civil conversation.
After all, this is a serious problem that affects us all.
Believer and sceptic alike.

Me too, & those that don't want to take part can have their own discussions about other realities, you could just ignore our little corner of madness & eccentricity.