Efficiency

[monkey spanner]

Hi guy's.

I once spent about 30-40 minuet's making a adjustable pot hanger, It was a work of art (if I do say so my self) all knots smoothed down, the hanging point's equally spaced, nice and straight.
I was very pleased with it, right up to the point where I trod on it.
It snapped at the point where I was going to hang my pot.
It was getting dark by now, I knocked one up in about 5 minuets, not a looker by any mean's but it did the job.
So I guess efficiency has it's place.

 

[mbiraman]

The time thing is really about survival. When your out and about on your own schedule and there's nothing pressing then quality time,, breathing in the landscape, is important . But in a survival situation the time element is VERY important especially in cold weather. I'm just starting my winter camping life but do allot of hiking/snowshoeing in the winter. I learned to be efficient and fast at starting a fire for lunch because i only have 45min. to an hr before i have to get moving again. In winter little things that you normally putz around with start adding up and can get you very uncomfortable or in trouble.

bill

 

[Stringmaker]

I know what you mean.

The best example I can think of in terms of efficiency versus effort is the bow drill. Yes it is possible to make one "in the wild" but if you make a good one that is efficient then stick with it.

I keep meaning to try and quantify how little time and effort is needed to get an ember with my demo set. It is as efficient as it is possible to make it; large limpet shell for the bearing + seasoned hazel drill + seasoned hazel hearth = minimum physical effort. I was thinking of expressing it in some kind of "drills x time" figure, such that the number of strokes x the number of seconds gives you the rating.

Anyone else done anything like this to give me a starting target?

 

[Retired Member southey]

I get where your coming from TN, I tend to get set up very quick, I find it a pleasure to have my fire, cooking system, shelter and sleep either or ready to set-up quickly, getting the important stuff done quickly means I can do what I went there to do in the first place, I don't go to a wood to spend all day practising set-ups or fire lays(thats where the garden comes in) rather go to enjoy the woods and what's there, or to sleep after a days walking where getting everything set up when tired relies on being efficient, it isn't survival-ism imo its camping

 

[Thenihilist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnMXXuha9PE

Thats a great example.

 

[armie]

Efficiency is also about organization; for example, if you build a fire, you should collect enough wood and place it at hand to begin with, in stead of continuously having to go back into the woods to search for more. That way you can spend less time doing chores and more time doing what you like. No doubt there are people whose hobby is precisely "rummaging around in the woods continuously", so they wouldn't mind.

 

[Mick w.]

I'm not really in a position to be making fires, other than in my honey stove if I feel like not using meths. It only takes me minutes to set up my tarp usually although I'm still a bit of a novice with it; usually it's up just in case the weather turns bad in the night, and I have to roll under it in a hurry.
Mr Nihilist...build a chair? How do you mean, like a Thomas Chippendale or something? My woodwork skills are nowhere near as advanced as that! I usually just sit on my ****!
I think I'll start having a go at carving stuff, spoons or pot hangers (have to get mesen a pot with a hanger instead of a handle) just to give myself an excuse to use my knife.
As I say, I'm very much a novice at this, but I'm learning slowly...

 

[Thenihilist]

I'm not really in a position to be making fires, other than in my honey stove if I feel like not using meths. It only takes me minutes to set up my tarp usually although I'm still a bit of a novice with it; usually it's up just in case the weather turns bad in the night, and I have to roll under it in a hurry.
Mr Nihilist...build a chair? How do you mean, like a Thomas Chippendale or something? My woodwork skills are nowhere near as advanced as that! I usually just sit on my ****!
I think I'll start having a go at carving stuff, spoons or pot hangers (have to get mesen a pot with a hanger instead of a handle) just to give myself an excuse to use my knife.
As I say, I'm very much a novice at this, but I'm learning slowly...

We have thousands of ways to make a seat, some require skillful application of various notches etc but i use a more complex design if somewhere for a week or make a simple chair for the day.

 

[Ivan...]

Efficiency , means so many different things to so many different people, the way i look at it personally , is relatively simple the 6 p's are very important ,proper planning prevents **** poor performance, if you have time that is .
Packing the right kit, and getting everything you need to do done before it gets dark!! seemples !

made a grave error this w/e , crossed the River Avon on Sun, found a lovely spot , peed dowwn all Sun night and Mon , was very dangerous crossing back when river was in spate , we all got soaked , lesson learn't , could have been a lot worse than us all getting soaked !!

 

[Andy BB]

I think this "speed" thing is a red herring.

What I'm guessing Mors is getting at is to learn how to do something properly, and that takes practice. Once you've got that skill, you'll become more efficient at doing it.

Simple analogy - remember how long it took you to put up your first tent? and how much quicker you did it once you'd done it a few times?

 

[Thenihilist]

I think this "speed" thing is a red herring.

What I'm guessing Mors is getting at is to learn how to do something properly, and that takes practice. Once you've got that skill, you'll become more efficient at doing it.

Simple analogy - remember how long it took you to put up your first tent? and how much quicker you did it once you'd done it a few times?

Thats what i mean i tried to make similar analogies like that.

 

[Thenihilist]

"Don't practice till you get it right, practice until you don't get it wrong"

 

[Retired Member southey]

Done 2 courses with Mors this year and something he talked about was effeciency in the bush. He was saying how being able to do something or knowing how to do something isn't much use if you can't do it effeciently.

Best example is his pamphlet you get while being taught how to make the try stick where it says it should be done within 10 minutes and neatly.
............

Were those the extended Karamat courses? More info on your time there and some pics would be great.

Would you do a course write up for us chap! would like to get over to Canada for a brew With Mr Kochanski but at $1065.67 plus flights and the rest

 

[Thenihilist]

I'll make an attempt later tonight dude.

Only one of was an actual course the other was more of a get together ( the benifits of having a grandad who went to school with Mors for a time) My grandads on the forum (Auldjum) though he's been inactive for a few weeks.

I sold my car, tv and blu ray player to get the money for the course, well worth it lol.

Will write a reviewy later on.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I'll make an attempt later tonight dude.

Only one of was an actual course the other was more of a get together ( the benifits of having a grandad who went to school with Mors for a time) My grandads on the forum (Auldjum) though he's been inactive for a few weeks.

I sold my car, tv and blu ray player to get the money for the course, well worth it lol.

Will write a reviewy later on.

Cheers matey!

 

[Eragon21]

Looking at some of the post about the realationship to speed and efficiency I think that what Mors means by efficiency relates to the survival situation and not to the "Bushcraft for fun". Simple put that if you are inefficient in the survival situation where the plan would be to conserve all the energy you can, you are likely to fail and die. The more efficient you are the less energy is wasted the better chance of survival or rescue as you would survive for longer.

 

[udamiano]

could it be that what he was saying was just 'more haste, less speed' as the saying goes, and this would especially ring true in the northern parts of Canada, when long nights and very very short days, limit the amount that can be done in daylight, so what needs to be done, needs to be done in a quick efficient way, not wasting daylight, but not making a rushed half-arsed job of it. because the last thing you want is that shelter you made in 5 minutes later failing down in the night because it was a rushed job.
Other thing come into play, such as the amount of time you spend with your gloves off, or outdoors lets not forget the extreme temperature variations in the North of Canada, where you don't want your gloves off for more than 10 mins max, or being out in a particularly heavy snow fall, for longer then needs be.
The environment and external pressures dictate the time you take to do something, and practice will always make jobs a quicker, the real question is DO they need to take less time.
Time can be both a luxury and a hindrance depending on the situation

 

[sandbender]

"...Done 2 courses with Mors this year..."

"...Were those the extended Karamat courses? More info on your time there and some pics would be great..."

"...Would you do a course write up for us chap!..."

"...I'll make an attempt later tonight dude....Will write a reviewy later on..."

C'mon, I have been thinking about splashing out on one of his courses, some pics if you have any and a review would be good.