Ecological Armageddon....
- Thread starter Dave
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Plus, Mono crops also destroy the soil. But, if an oldfashioned rotation method is used you have a meadow once every few years.
Organic farming methods are not so bad for wildlife. Insects, birds, other animals.
Cows and pigs need many kilograms of corn/feed to make one kilo of meat. And lots of water.
To be honest, to be Vegetarian is a half assed measure, as if you want milk products, the cow has to have a calf to start her milk production. Yearly? Every second year? I do not know.
Those calves need to either be killed straight away, or grown a bit and then killed. And eaten. To throw them away would be wasting resources and nutrients.
So even vegetarians contribute to animal killing.
Unless you go the Chemical way and inject the cows with hormones.
We can not win!
I think the best for everybody is to eat less meat, and choose meat that has been reared ethically.
Organic farming methods are not so bad for wildlife. Insects, birds, other animals.
Cows and pigs need many kilograms of corn/feed to make one kilo of meat. And lots of water.
To be honest, to be Vegetarian is a half assed measure, as if you want milk products, the cow has to have a calf to start her milk production. Yearly? Every second year? I do not know.
Those calves need to either be killed straight away, or grown a bit and then killed. And eaten. To throw them away would be wasting resources and nutrients.
So even vegetarians contribute to animal killing.
Unless you go the Chemical way and inject the cows with hormones.
We can not win!
I think the best for everybody is to eat less meat, and choose meat that has been reared ethically.
Gross Production (GP) = Net Production (NP) plus Respiration (R)
Measure all the nutrient and energy that goes in (GP), then measure how much animal growth you see (NP)
Agricultural research is an order of magnitude ahead of us, Janne.
Pigs have about the best NP.
The cheapest way to enhance cattle NP? Heat the water they drink. Fact.
Monoculture crops don't kill the soils.
What you can measure is nutrient depletion from root crops in particular. Cereal crop cultivation is quite benign.
Plus, it isn't reasonable to imagine all soils being the same. Some people do.
Worst offender of the lot are the people eating crops = they take away the most nutritious plant parts and put nothing back.
I am an omnivore. The animals that I eat do return nutrients to the environmental base, both land and water.
I leave a lot of bone, meaty bits and feather in the forest every autumn. Just when so many animals need nutrition for the coming winter.
Gardens are good things. Till the inedible leavings from the harvest straight back into the garden soil.
Measure all the nutrient and energy that goes in (GP), then measure how much animal growth you see (NP)
Agricultural research is an order of magnitude ahead of us, Janne.
Pigs have about the best NP.
The cheapest way to enhance cattle NP? Heat the water they drink. Fact.
Monoculture crops don't kill the soils.
What you can measure is nutrient depletion from root crops in particular. Cereal crop cultivation is quite benign.
Plus, it isn't reasonable to imagine all soils being the same. Some people do.
Worst offender of the lot are the people eating crops = they take away the most nutritious plant parts and put nothing back.
I am an omnivore. The animals that I eat do return nutrients to the environmental base, both land and water.
I leave a lot of bone, meaty bits and feather in the forest every autumn. Just when so many animals need nutrition for the coming winter.
Gardens are good things. Till the inedible leavings from the harvest straight back into the garden soil.
Is it not chicken that is the most efficient?
You can even use the feathers as a food additive. Nicely processed!
If the McNugget scratches your throat, it could be the beak or the feather....
I thought mono crops depleted the specific nutrients. Rotation growing with legumes and resting years between do not so badly.
You can even use the feathers as a food additive. Nicely processed!
If the McNugget scratches your throat, it could be the beak or the feather....
I thought mono crops depleted the specific nutrients. Rotation growing with legumes and resting years between do not so badly.
The root systems of the Leguminoseae are contaminated with nodules of nitrogen-fixing bacteria.
A mutualistic arrangement with the host plant. Typically, the root systems are unharvested, just tilled into the soil.
Their decomposition is as useful as other fixed nitrogen sources.
Sure, put in a few square miles of peas or lentils. Know ahead of time who the buyer(s) will be?
Canada geese do a fantastic amount of damage to legume crops. That's where I have the most fun goose hunting.
Chicken McNuggets are made by pressure-washing skeletons and filtering the pink slime from the water.
The texture of a North American-style hot dog is determined by the % of lung tissue.
You can bet that it's all-beef! Just not the parts you might imagine.
We shouldn't complain. That's what everybody wants, isn't it? Total usage?
A mutualistic arrangement with the host plant. Typically, the root systems are unharvested, just tilled into the soil.
Their decomposition is as useful as other fixed nitrogen sources.
Sure, put in a few square miles of peas or lentils. Know ahead of time who the buyer(s) will be?
Canada geese do a fantastic amount of damage to legume crops. That's where I have the most fun goose hunting.
Chicken McNuggets are made by pressure-washing skeletons and filtering the pink slime from the water.
The texture of a North American-style hot dog is determined by the % of lung tissue.
You can bet that it's all-beef! Just not the parts you might imagine.
We shouldn't complain. That's what everybody wants, isn't it? Total usage?
I like total usage.
Head cheese, brawn, intestines for sausage casing, blutworst, kidneys, liver. Marrow. Brain. Haggis.
Cod tongues, cheeks, rolled cod belly, liver.
Dogs can have the rest.
Total usage.. dogs need to eat too!
I just like the manufacturer to write what parts of the animals I am eating. Honesty! Disclosure!
Will not happen though.
Legumes, everything above the ground, make excellent silage. Cows love it.
Sourkraut for bovines. Full of vitamins, minerals.
Head cheese, brawn, intestines for sausage casing, blutworst, kidneys, liver. Marrow. Brain. Haggis.
Cod tongues, cheeks, rolled cod belly, liver.
Dogs can have the rest.
Total usage.. dogs need to eat too!
I just like the manufacturer to write what parts of the animals I am eating. Honesty! Disclosure!
Will not happen though.
Legumes, everything above the ground, make excellent silage. Cows love it.
Sourkraut for bovines. Full of vitamins, minerals.
Anybody who has any serious concerns about economic collapse ought to start practicing the "old ways" of food preservation.
Smoking, drying and salting, in particular. Just do it. Dried Roma tomatoes are heavenly to nibble on as a novelty.
Tomatoes grow and yield quite well in really big pots. Barter, barter, barter.
Any old junk gas BBQ and a few handfuls of chopped apple wood will do for the starts of a smoker.
Gut a baffed out refrigerator and there's your metal cabinet. Once you get the technique figured out, then switch to wood heat.
My next exploration may start this coming weekend with a substantial batch of clams and mussels
that will spend more than just a few hours in the smoker. I don't have any interest in making the cordage to string them on.
But I bet I could barter some results for the cords I need! Cotton butcher string will have to do.
Smoking, drying and salting, in particular. Just do it. Dried Roma tomatoes are heavenly to nibble on as a novelty.
Tomatoes grow and yield quite well in really big pots. Barter, barter, barter.
Any old junk gas BBQ and a few handfuls of chopped apple wood will do for the starts of a smoker.
Gut a baffed out refrigerator and there's your metal cabinet. Once you get the technique figured out, then switch to wood heat.
My next exploration may start this coming weekend with a substantial batch of clams and mussels
that will spend more than just a few hours in the smoker. I don't have any interest in making the cordage to string them on.
But I bet I could barter some results for the cords I need! Cotton butcher string will have to do.
Soil depletion wasn't my point. A plant crop yields nothing other than that specific plant crop. Any wildlife that might benefit from it is deliberately killed so as not to interfere with the harvest yield. Animal ranching coexists with all the other native fauna. Many deer and turkeys are harvested from among the beef herds. Fish and other aquatic life thrives in the farm lakes (as long as the pasture isn't crowded too densely)
Ranching here at 53 N is almost like running a zoo for the incident wildlife.
It's an activity with guests = out at dusk with binocs and spotting scopes.
Moose, elk, white tail deer, mule deer, wolves, coyotes, cougars, lynx, bobcats,
grizzly bears, black bears, geese & ducks. No turkeys or pheasants yet.
Knowing exactly where to look up, there's mountain goats and mountain sheep as well.
Crop damage from the Canada geese in particular is really amazing.
It's an activity with guests = out at dusk with binocs and spotting scopes.
Moose, elk, white tail deer, mule deer, wolves, coyotes, cougars, lynx, bobcats,
grizzly bears, black bears, geese & ducks. No turkeys or pheasants yet.
Knowing exactly where to look up, there's mountain goats and mountain sheep as well.
Crop damage from the Canada geese in particular is really amazing.
Those are things that the majority of the public want. Greasy chips with salt = 3 of their most important food groups.
One "class" of such people believe that it's OK to murder a carrot but don't touch the meat crops.
Just for that, I'll have to snarf down some bison tonight.
How does that old joke go?
" I just love the vegans. Right between the peas and the potatoes."
One "class" of such people believe that it's OK to murder a carrot but don't touch the meat crops.
Just for that, I'll have to snarf down some bison tonight.
How does that old joke go?
" I just love the vegans. Right between the peas and the potatoes."
So true. Huge areas where food could be grown is used for unneccesary stuff.
I know quite many people living south of Tunbridge Wells, living in nice large houses surrounded by nice empty fields. No cattle, no goats, no sheep.
Empty land. Grass.
I planned to have sheep on my 4 acres, but moved before I got them. Had a pond I had made, stocked with perch and carp. Good eating!
I know quite many people living south of Tunbridge Wells, living in nice large houses surrounded by nice empty fields. No cattle, no goats, no sheep.
Empty land. Grass.
I planned to have sheep on my 4 acres, but moved before I got them. Had a pond I had made, stocked with perch and carp. Good eating!
Exactly!
Irish Coffee contains ALL 4 major food groups:
1) Alcohol
2) Sugar
3) Fat
4) Caffiene
Where's the bacon?
I want my coffee black with just a little sugar and lots of it. The booze goes in the other cup after 5PM (somewhere).
I want my coffee black with just a little sugar and lots of it. The booze goes in the other cup after 5PM (somewhere).
To put in simply, many honestly don't care about the natural environment. Where I am there are a number of land owners (farmers) who give the rest a bad name.
I remember a few years back I was asked by a local farmer who I knew rather well to come and look at an area of woodland he had. When I got there I found a 7 acre Hornbeam coppice which Oak standards. Somewhat neglected but stunning due to the carpet of Wood Anemones which stretched as far as the eye could see, I thought that he wanted me to get a coppice rotation going, so you can imagine my surprise when I was asked to clear fell and grub out the ENTIRE woodland, all 7 ACRES. He knew such an action would get him in serious bother (hence why he wanted a 'friend' to get it done). Well obviously I didn't and explained to him the ecological importance of his ancient woodland, the fact that is supported a countless number of species etc. To be honest the man couldn't of cared less, to him it was a waste of space, (it sat in the middle of one massive field).
This same guy also grubs out hedgerows and demolishes field margins on an almost monthly basis. Sadly I have meant many a farmer like him. It goes without saying that the vast majority of farmers do look after what they have for the benefit of the environment as well as food production, but as the largest land owners in this country, you can't help but feel they should care more.
Is the battle lost, not yet but people better wake up fast and open their eyes before its too late.
PS. The wood is still, thankfully, whole. Its seems I wasn't the only one to be appalled!
I remember a few years back I was asked by a local farmer who I knew rather well to come and look at an area of woodland he had. When I got there I found a 7 acre Hornbeam coppice which Oak standards. Somewhat neglected but stunning due to the carpet of Wood Anemones which stretched as far as the eye could see, I thought that he wanted me to get a coppice rotation going, so you can imagine my surprise when I was asked to clear fell and grub out the ENTIRE woodland, all 7 ACRES. He knew such an action would get him in serious bother (hence why he wanted a 'friend' to get it done). Well obviously I didn't and explained to him the ecological importance of his ancient woodland, the fact that is supported a countless number of species etc. To be honest the man couldn't of cared less, to him it was a waste of space, (it sat in the middle of one massive field).
This same guy also grubs out hedgerows and demolishes field margins on an almost monthly basis. Sadly I have meant many a farmer like him. It goes without saying that the vast majority of farmers do look after what they have for the benefit of the environment as well as food production, but as the largest land owners in this country, you can't help but feel they should care more.
Is the battle lost, not yet but people better wake up fast and open their eyes before its too late.
PS. The wood is still, thankfully, whole. Its seems I wasn't the only one to be appalled!
I think it should be kept in mind that many a farmer is caught in a debt-trap.
He has loaned money to upgrade his farm or machines, but in order to pay for the loans he must have a decent harvest THIS SEASON. Many a farmer is overloaned, so they need more land in order to raise cropsales. In order to be able to work that land in time, he needs bigger equipment and that equipment is insanely expensive. So he needs a bigger loan... and the circle goes round again.
This I learned in the years I helped with potatoharvest. And here another catch comes along. These days it is the market (read wholesale) that determines the price, not the farmer! If he wants to sell, he often has to lower the price to an bare existential level. Sometimes even under it. If he doesn't, he does not sell. Period.
And to add insult to injury, look at how many farmer has been brought up or is "educated". They simple often do not know any better then to use pesticides, herbicides and artificial fertilizers. That is all they know! And that pretty much is all the previous generation knew. Rethinking is very hard and besides with modified crops that thrive in monocultures and with the use of said chemicals.... Pretty much a done deal. Changing the course and risking a multimillion enterprise and your family's livelihood, probably family inheritance.....
Many a farmer simply has no or sees no other options, especially now that there appear campaigns AGAINST ecological farming.
And most of the customers still buy cheap supermarketfood that does not support the farmer that wants to make that change.
He has loaned money to upgrade his farm or machines, but in order to pay for the loans he must have a decent harvest THIS SEASON. Many a farmer is overloaned, so they need more land in order to raise cropsales. In order to be able to work that land in time, he needs bigger equipment and that equipment is insanely expensive. So he needs a bigger loan... and the circle goes round again.
This I learned in the years I helped with potatoharvest. And here another catch comes along. These days it is the market (read wholesale) that determines the price, not the farmer! If he wants to sell, he often has to lower the price to an bare existential level. Sometimes even under it. If he doesn't, he does not sell. Period.
And to add insult to injury, look at how many farmer has been brought up or is "educated". They simple often do not know any better then to use pesticides, herbicides and artificial fertilizers. That is all they know! And that pretty much is all the previous generation knew. Rethinking is very hard and besides with modified crops that thrive in monocultures and with the use of said chemicals.... Pretty much a done deal. Changing the course and risking a multimillion enterprise and your family's livelihood, probably family inheritance.....
Many a farmer simply has no or sees no other options, especially now that there appear campaigns AGAINST ecological farming.
And most of the customers still buy cheap supermarketfood that does not support the farmer that wants to make that change.
Most of this is spot on!
The only thing I'd disagree with is the claim that modified crops (I assume you mean genetically modified?) are created to thrive in pesticides and fertilizers) The opposite is the case; they're deliberately developed to not need those things. That's one of the reasons that it's difficult to get foods that are BOTH non-GMO and organic. They can be one or the other fairly easily but both at the same time is far more difficult.
Of course, I certainly understand the strains and stresses a farm can go through. As I said, my comment was not referring to all farmers, just the minority which give the majority a bad name. However, I think it would be wrong to say that just because 'it is all they know' is a valid argument. I think that is the attitude which only makes the situation worse. I know many a farmer who has embraced the changes which have taken place over the last decade or so.
A good friend of mine is an arable farmer, he is all for the new approaches. Why? Because he understands that he is a mere custodian of that land and he feels a great deal of responsibility because of it. Often small changes don't actually cost that much to implement, small changes which make a great difference. For example, instead of grubbing out or flailing hedgerows within an inch of their lives, get a hedge layer in. I have undertaken some hedging work in the past and my entire cost on one occasion was covered by farming subsidies. It didn't cost them a penny! What do they get in return? A valuable habitat, a wildlife corridor, a source of food, the list goes on.
An argument could also be made that those very hedgerows are artificial themselves. The result of earlier (albeit centuries earlier) practices of changing the environment.
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