Ecological Armageddon....

[santaman2000]

In Canada you do not have much of the surface covered with roads and far less cars than in Europe.

it is not easy to grow more algae and sea weed in the oceans. How do you grow more without changing the balance?....

Regarding your first statement, I agree with you. I aklso know that MOST of the world (not just Canada) has far less areas in roadways that not.

Regarding your second statement/question; I agree. Unfortunately that's also true with most (if not all) things we might try. Every solution to an existing problem causes a new problem.

 

[snappingturtle]

To much is given to the planet being owned by us, a statement of geed in itself, and nothing stops us doing as we will with it, I see it as a shared place and there is a good chance we are just a single step within evolution, and are time will come to pass making way for what ever is next, utter stupidity really as we do have a chance to endure, but each and every one of use must grow up, are emotive content is far too childish and we lack a grand sense of empathy and a true understanding of self. I morn for this world it is a fantastic garden full of wondrous things, we have a chance to be awesome beings, but we prize foolish things, hold fast we are in for interesting times! I guess take as little as you can, make last as much as you can, and give were you can to all beings, I'm sure most of us do here but we it would seem are few.

 

[santaman2000]

...But I do recycle, avoid using chemicals, eat Organic if I can.

This is a good example of my previous statement regarding solutions causing new problems (or at least "potential" problems) Organic crops use no polluting fertilizers or pesticides, but they take up more land into cultivation to grow the same amount of food. Also they are more likely to be genetically engineered.

 

[Robson Valley]

The province of British Columbia is nearly 3 times the area of Great Britain. Just BC, by itself.
GB has maybe 65 million people, BC has less than 6 million, mostly in a few cities.

There are some little clusters of people along the precious few highways, like the village of 600 (McBride) where I live.

This place is basically empty. The middle of nowhere wilderness is 20-30 minutes from my house.

What annoys us is that, resource-rich, we are supposed to support the resource-sucking parasites in the big cities.
We do not see diddly in return. Maybe pull the plug on their electricity some day? Help yourselves, folks.

 

[daveO]

This is a good example of my previous statement regarding solutions causing new problems (or at least "potential" problems) Organic crops use no polluting fertilizers or pesticides, but they take up more land into cultivation to grow the same amount of food. Also they are more likely to be genetically engineered.

but organic food and produce is expensive and coveted at the moment so wastage is likely to be less than with cheap food. Food wastage is another massive problem which would free up tons of resources if it could be tackled.

Genetic enginnering is also a tricky term as almost all our food is now modified from the wild food it originated from.

 

[santaman2000]

but organic food and produce is expensive and coveted at the moment so wastage is likely to be less than with cheap food. Food wastage is another massive problem which would free up tons of resources if it could be tackled.

Genetic enginnering is also a tricky term as almost all our food is now modified from the wild food it originated from.

True. That said, expensive is the problem. We have masses to feed, not just the wealthy. Which brings us back to an above post about population control-----which in turn brings us back to my statement about how solving one problem creates new ones (curing and eliminating diseases, farming, better shelters, etc. all helped ease mortality rates----but that in turn created a bigger population which further strains the environment)

 

[Dave]

Its a little bit reassuring that you guys are taking an active interest in this, and I've learned some things from your comments.

 

[Janne]

'Sensible' genetic modification is good. Has been done by the slow but excellent selection method since beginning of settled times. No doubt even before, as the AmerIndians can testify.
I do not like it when they insert genes from other species, or create inbuilt pesticides. I accept that minimal pesticides are sprayed on, as I can wash/peel it off. Not if the whole produce is infused in it.

Organics takes more land area? Not that much. There is plenty of unused land out there. Higher food prices for us living in 'rich' countries is not bad, as the majority of us overeat. Big portions, way to much meat.
A large % of the grain crops are used to feed cattle. Eat more grains and less cattle. Just like our grand parents, the ones that are living comparably healthy until the 80's.

 

[Robson Valley]

Natural Selection modifies organisms in the face of environmental pressures.

Artificial selection is the same thing but guided by the hand of Man.
It is not genetic engineering, it does not produce GMO.
Selection over time has given us all the different breeds of animals and varieties of plants.

GMO intends to take particular genetic configurations from one species and insert that valuable character into another species.
What we've learned, though, is that the human genome is riddled with long pieces of virus DNA/genetic code. We are GMO, ourselves.

I grow Vitis riparia, a frost tolerant species of grape native to North America.
The wine industry, growing V. vinifera, wants to splice the frost tolerance to extend the
climatic distribution of wine grapes. Don't know about you but I don't find that a bad thing at all.

 

[Janne]

Even certain GMO is good. I specially find the Canadian Potato with the genes from an Arctic Cod interesting.
Tubers do not freeze. Fish and chips without the Fish!
But will not eat it. I like my DNA to be inside a Cod fish.

The Russian developed deep frost hardy grape vines in the 50's. Plus Apples, Apricots.
'rumor' says it was the German scientists they grabbed before the Americans had a chance to grab them that did the work.

GMO is banned in Norway. Most GMO foods is banned in Europe.

 

[Leshy]

I agree . About time somebody said something on here.

Dave , there are lots of us doing the little that we can to change the world around us.
As Crosslandkelly said, little by little, the tide is turning .

More and more people are becoming aware of the apathy and the tactics of the the cleptocrats and their corporate fiends.


Some wise folk are turning to Permaculture and it's principles when planning their food gardens etc.

Some people have also taken on raising bees in their gardens as a means to improve the eco system and to give the poor buggers a sporting chance .

Eating and buying local produce , making conscious decisions on shopping habits , and product preference are all helping.

Humans are not the smartest apes though ...

The planet and its life , will continue thriving well beyond our existence here....
No doubt about that.
If the average civilization lasted about 10.000 years , then us lot have well and truly overstayed our welcome.
Resourceful? Yes.
Resilient? Maybe.
Respectful ? Definitely not.

The system is rigged though

In the western world , it's all geared up to make it extremely difficult for Joe Nobodys like me , to go off grid and start a homestead and provide a wholesome existence for your children.

Work , eat , sleep , repeat.

The internet and the TV are the new religions. Mediocrity is standard .
Mouth breathers everywhere .
I'm thinking, population control is not as scary as I first thought ...
Teedee got a point .

I'm following this thread with interest

 

[Janne]

If I may say so, the problem is that we bushcrafters, nature lovers, whatever we call us, be it living in the Caribbean, UK, Canada or US, already have a certain ‘feel for nature’ as we love it.
We see the crap what is happening.

Most people do not care. Not interested as long as they can scoff a cheap pizza and watch football on tv. Or even worse, these so called Reality TV shows.

Edit: another pet perve I have is the crazy transportation around the world of food.
Europe does not need apples from New Zealand. Does not need Green Beans from Africa.
Eat local apples, eat local beans. Fresh when in season. Frozen or preserved outside the season.

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

Edit: another pet perve I have is the crazy transportation around the world of food.
Europe does not need apples from New Zealand. Does not need Green Beans from Africa.
Eat local apples, eat local beans. Fresh when in season. Frozen or preserved outside the season.

Oh 'eck, I was trying to keep out of this but you've rattled my cage Janne!

Not too many years back just as Austria was approaching their vote re joining the EU, my aunt and uncle - farmers - were split on which way to vote. My aunt was in favour, my uncle against.

He summed it up like this - The EU will tell a country to 'stop growing this and start growing that' (or get paid for growing SFA!).
He continued his argument along the lines of, for example, if France are growing all the apples and one year there is a bad harvest - who will get all/the best apples?

So where have all the UK orchards gone, we used to have hundreds of them?

Importing food from around the world also means importing water in many instances and from countries who can least afford to lose it.

Guilty of buying foreign produce in the past we have been trying to revert to UK seasonal fruit and veg. Do I really need Egyptian strawberries in December?

Maybe if someone got a grip of UK food production and made use of the millions of acres around the UK which have been left fallow for decades (and as I often see, in sh*t state to boot!) not only would the UK be more capable of supplying a larger quantity of its food requirement but it might also do the eco system some good at the same time.

 

[Janne]

Sorry to rattle your cage!
I love apples. Northern part of Europe grows the most flavoursome, juicy varieties. Yet thegrowers are struggling and disappearing.
I read a year or two ago some supermarket dude say the customer did not want them. BS. The customer has been trained like a puppy to like perfectly shaped, floury, insipid, brightly coloured oversweet imports.

Givr me a Katja from Österlen in Sweden. Give me a Egremont Russet from Kent.
Or any traditional sort. Then I am happy.

Apple orchards need pollination. The honey from them is excuisite.

Is there snything more relaxing then taking a walk in nature, choosong a sunny field or glade, lying down, closing the eyes and listening to the birds and insects?

Therapy number one!

 

[daveO]

Apparently traditional apple varieties have way more nutritional value than modern supermarket varieties. I'm lucky to have access to a few very old orchards and I've recently planted some egremont russets. No fruit yet though.

 

[petrochemicals]

It's not suprising really dave, intensive agriculture farming with nitrates rather than ecological nutrients. It also says in the article75% reduction, wiped out means extinct to me, just being a pedant.

Add in the ammount of land that is intensively farmed and the removal of forests and new pesticides, GM, dioxins, plastics, deformity in animals etc is it any wonder? As was stated by others many times the population is going the wrong way.

 

[Janne]

Not only more nutritional value, but also most if the old varieties can be tokerated by people with a sensitivity to a specific compound in modern apples.

Plus, each apple had a vastly different taste, ripening time, ability for storage.

Ok, naturally grown ( organic to average Joe) do not look as pretty.

 

[Janne]

When I was a kid we used to live in a house inside hospital grounds next to an apple and pear irchard.
Lots if different varieties, but one apple tree is still in my memiry. One tree only. Fruit the suze of an egg, small. Intenseky sweet and sour, skin deep red. Flesh bright red, all the way through. Juice was red too.
Orchard was destroyed when they expanded the hospital.

Today I think somebody would have saved the variety, in those days nobody cared.

 

[Robson Valley]

Be patient and look around, heritage variety growers are everywhere.
Locally, we have a guy with 300+ tomato varieties. Grows maybe 60 each year.
Down south, is a BC apple orchard with 50+ heritage varrieties.
Heard a story of some family with more than 50 varieties of potatoes.
Locally, about a dozen diffrent ones in gardens. 20+ varieties of carrots.

Britain has several of the biggest and most diverse collections of apple tree varieties in the world.

The world's heritage seed bank is tunneled into the Permafrost in Norway.

 

[Janne]

Yes, the British apples are fantastic. I just hope the British population wakes up and realizes what a treasure they have withing the borders!

Nothing beats a newly picked tree matured apple with dew on.
Not even a mango straight from the tree.

The seed bank is on the island Svalbard. Yes, belongs to Norway. Good fishing there, might fly there and try it out.
Not so good for camping and bushcrafting, as there are more Polar Bears than trees.
My old friends grand daughter lives there. Marine biologist. Works with a Ruger Alaskan .454 on her hip.
I recommended her to get that model.
Most people wear rifles.