EcoFlow DELTA 3 Classic

[slowworm]

I've been looking at the various power stations again but trying to get something to cover our essential needs rather than an expensive setup that may not get used fully.

As we work from home it will only need to power a router (possibly Starlink), charge a laptop and charge mobile phones. Something that lasts a few days would also make sense.

I noticed an advert for a 'classic' EcoFlow device that seems to have bucked the trend of offering an increasing array of connections buy offering a cheaper but more limited device.

EcoFlow DELTA 3 Classic | Pre-Launch & Early Bird Perk - EcoFlow UK

Lock in your EcoFlow DELTA 3 Classic early: 1 kWh portable power station with 1800W output, 80% charge in 45 mins, ultra-quiet operation and 10-year lifespan.

uk.ecoflow.com

Does anyone have a view on this? It is rated at 1024Whr. We would only need two 240v plugs, and only need a single USB-C socket. The lower solar input is fine as we may not get round to getting a solar panel for it. I also don't think we need the option of adding another battery as we could get by for a couple of days without needing much. It might be better to look for a 2nd device if we wanted more capacity.

The cost is £450 which seems reasonable considering the warranty. I'm not sure if the price will be more or less when it goes on sale, does anyone have experience of their early bird offers?

 

[British Red]

Ecoflow are reputable & towards the upper tier of manufacturers. £450 isn't bad for the spec but do bear in mind that when you are using mains power, there will be a notable drain just to power the inverter. You wouldn't be able to run your inverter for 48hours but could charge your devices & run your inverter intermittently. In most rural areas now if mains power goes, mobile coverage is dead within 2 hours (assuming a widespread outage) & home phone immediately unless you have FTTP or Starlink VOIP

Hope that helps

 

[slowworm]

The plan would be to just run the router when needed. We've started to have a few more unexpected power cuts, i.e. not when it's been stormy. At some point they may start to catch up on the maintenance in the area which which will mean more short notice cuts. Although we're flexible when it comes to work there's a few hours a week when power is essential, online meetings etc.

So the main use would only be for an hour or two. When we have another large outage we would use it sparingly to rearrange things and find out what's been going on.

 

[GreyCat]

Have you worked out power consumption and required run time then worked backwards?

Starlink draws up to 40W. Adds up quite quickly if on all the time. (That's rated value although mine seems to use more like 30W on the Ecoflow output monitor)

However...... Starlink can be powered up and down quickly, and the Ecoflow can recharge from solar or a gennie. You say its for bursts of power not all the time so all depends on how many days you want really.

What I would say from my camper van experience is that you never regret having a bit more battery capacity than you originally planned for.....

GC

 

[slowworm]

Have you worked out power consumption and required run time then worked backwards?

Sort of. However, its main use is to cover the unexpected which we can only make an educated guess at. I have asked what other people do with their battery banks but don't get many replies, do many people really suffer regular power cuts lasting over a day?

I've based our need on the assumption the router would draw 100w in use. But as our work is flexible a worse case scenario would only mean we need power for 2-3 hours in a day. Even that can be covered partly by our existing phone battery banks and mobile phone data.

Whilst more storage would be useful I'm trying to avoid spending large amounts on something that may not get used.

I also find the offers available confuse matters as I can buy a working 1kWh battery bank cheaper than and extra 1kWh extra battery!

 

[slowworm]

I've just seen the Delta 3 1500 is available for just £100 more at the moment. So, for £100 more you get 50% more capacity and more connections. Think I'll go for that.

I am finding all the offers confusing, it seems you can buy whole units more cheaply than a lower capacity spare battery.

 

[Stew]

I've just seen the Delta 3 1500 is available for just £100 more at the moment. So, for £100 more you get 50% more capacity and more connections. Think I'll go for that.

I am finding all the offers confusing, it seems you can buy whole units more cheaply than a lower capacity spare battery.

Glad it's not just me that finds it confusing. Puts me off buying as I'm unsure if I;ve missed something/not got the best choice.

 

[slowworm]

The site really needs a comparison tool, it would help if each device had a standard specs table but I'm having to search through each page to find the specs and some are missing.

I was looking again and the slightly cheaper Delta 2 seems to do everything we need that the Delta 3 Classic does.

Annoyingly, despite setting up an account and getting access to member only offers the Delta 2 is £80 cheaper on Amazon.

 

[GreyCat]

It is confusing, but also you need to watch for offers.

At the time I bought my Ecoflow Delta with 2 extra batteries (6kWh total), it was on a Black Friday deal on Amazon and much lower price than on the Ecoflow website. Even though it came direct from Ecoflow (but fulfilled by Amazon). I later got some solar panels for it in the post-Christmas lull (late Jan/early Feb).

I also bought at a time when there was not world turmoil. Given that dynamic pricing is a thing these days then timing can be important- prices can vary considerably during the year.

I tend to "watch" big ticket items I am interested in to see how the price varies, pretty much all my IT and electronic equipment was purchased when the price was in the low part of the cycle. So long as you are patient (and can wait), you can save quite a bit on the RRP.

GC

 

[slowworm]

It is confusing, but also you need to watch for offers.

I am watching the offers, that's why I create an account as I'd read you get member offers.

I had expected the prices to go up but not seen any movement yet. I have been sent an offer as I've left something in my basket for a couple of days, so worth noting.

I may well end up waiting for a better offer once I've managed to work out what we need.

 

[Sooty22]

If you want a unit purely for backup and not to charge/drain all the time, and are looking at charging phones, running laptops and a starlink mini (which can run on a USB-C PD), then you do not need an inverter at all. I would just get a couple of large lead acid batteries (150Ah each, total 300Ah or ca. 3.5kWh nominal capacity), an Epever / similar MPPT charge controller and a couple of 200W panels, and a panel with ciggie adaptors rated to 100W each (for USB-C PD).
This would be fully expandable in terms of battery capacity, most decent chargers can also be overpanneled to a large extent no problem, and the deep cycle batteries would take a fair few cycles before they were done. You can also opt for a LiFePO set up, with these batteries now having become fairly cheap and being able to take thousands of cycles.
If you wanted 230V for whatever reason, you can always add a small inverter, but keep in mind the inverters are relatively inefficient and it is best not to be running one.
The plug-and-play like Ecoflow/Bluetti are decent if you don't want to mess with setting something up, but I think you can get much more bang for your buck and have more redundancy / repairability and expansion capability if you go modular.
Either way, for the use you describe, I think it would be much better to stick with a full DC system.

 

[slowworm]

I have considered going down the buy batteries and associated bits route as a more flexible solution rather than saving money. (I think the power station I linked to above has been down as low as £350).

It would be more time consuming to sort out as not only would I need to decide what batteries would be best but we seem to have an endless array of devices that run various 12v inputs and I don't know all the ins and outs of running them off a 12v battery. Things like a new laptop which I don't wish to risk damage, it's easy to be able to plug the thing into a normal 240v socket even if it's less efficient.

Anyone know of a good site that can guide me through a 12v setup?

 

[Broch]

You asked specifically about 12v systems, at the risk of teaching my grandmother ...., starting from the basics, the simplest way to look at it is to treat your setup as a car or motorhome; anything designed for use using a car supply will work with the off the shelf converters sold for motoring or camping. However, be aware, a lot of devices rely on DC/DC conversion (a lap top for example typically takes around 19v and the adaptor has to convert that up from 12v), there is some loss of efficiency in those conversions. Even some devices that have a 12v input may have DC/DC converters within them. If your laptop is designed to run off 12v it will be happy running off a 12v battery even if it's being charged at 14.4 volts at the same time, as will any device that designed to plug into a car 12v socket.

Also, get into the habit of thinking about power (watts) instead of volts and current, then the ability of your system to power devices is easier to determine. So a 100 amp hour lead acid 12v battery gives a nominal 1,200 Wh of power (it doesn't because of efficiencies etc.) so can provide power to a laptop needing 60W for 20hrs no matter what the voltage. It will be less than that due to the DC/DC and battery efficiencies but it gives a guideline (if you work on around 80% it will be more accurate). Add all your device powers together, even mains devices running through an inverter, work out how long each will be running, and compare with your total battery power capacity, and you get a good idea of how long the batteries will last.

There are a number of books that deal with 12v systems written for home use and motorhome use - here's one that assumes no knowledge at all:

Amazon.co.uk

Sorry if you know all this!

 

[Falstaff]

Well I didn't so thank you Broch.

Sooty's comment about the life of batteries got me wondering about lead acid vs lithium (Ftp or something?) and their life, if only there and used as an occasional backup ?

Does that expensive Ecoflow fancy battery-with-plug-sockets need to be periodically run flat and recharged, to prevent it being dead or very degraded when you actually need it?
Does it have/ can you use a plug-in and forget trickle charger.

Do lithium batteries now cycle more, last, and store longer and better than deep cycle lead acid now?

 

[slowworm]

Sorry if you know all this!

I know a bit and used to know Ivy Watts quite well. But a book starting from scratch would be a good investment as I have considered having some form of 12v supply for some parts of the house long term.

However, to start with I was hoping to get a recommendation for some campervan type shop where I could quickly find a.battery, charger and some for of DC to DC converter to see if I would benefit from going down that router rather than a 240v powerstation.

 

[Broch]

I know a bit and used to know Ivy Watts quite well. But a book starting from scratch would be a good investment as I have considered having some form of 12v supply for some parts of the house long term.

However, to start with I was hoping to get a recommendation for some campervan type shop where I could quickly find a.battery, charger and some for of DC to DC converter to see if I would benefit from going down that router rather than a 240v powerstation.

OK, understood. To be honest it's probably worth just buying some cheapish kit to trial.

I put in a 12v system in my shepherds hut. I just used a cheap 100w flexi solar panel (to fit the curved roof)
Amazon.co.uk
and this is the cheap charge controller
Amazon.co.uk

Together with a 110Ah deep discharge lead acid battery this charges and provides enough power for lighting and device charging for a week of use even in winter or in summer with full tree canopy cover.

The battery is in a box and the controller mounted on the side. I've added a fused 12v socket directly wired to the battery. I also have a small cheap inverter for the rare occasion I want to run a low power mains device.

Amazon.co.uk

Total cost around £200 and it's been running for 5 years.

 

[TeeDee]

You asked specifically about 12v systems, at the risk of teaching my grandmother ...., starting from the basics, the simplest way to look at it is to treat your setup as a car or motorhome; anything designed for use using a car supply will work with the off the shelf converters sold for motoring or camping. However, be aware, a lot of devices rely on DC/DC conversion (a lap top for example typically takes around 19v and the adaptor has to convert that up from 12v), there is some loss of efficiency in those conversions. Even some devices that have a 12v input may have DC/DC converters within them. If your laptop is designed to run off 12v it will be happy running off a 12v battery even if it's being charged at 14.4 volts at the same time, as will any device that designed to plug into a car 12v socket.

Also, get into the habit of thinking about power (watts) instead of volts and current, then the ability of your system to power devices is easier to determine. So a 100 amp hour lead acid 12v battery gives a nominal 1,200 Wh of power (it doesn't because of efficiencies etc.) so can provide power to a laptop needing 60W for 20hrs no matter what the voltage. It will be less than that due to the DC/DC and battery efficiencies but it gives a guideline (if you work on around 80% it will be more accurate). Add all your device powers together, even mains devices running through an inverter, work out how long each will be running, and compare with your total battery power capacity, and you get a good idea of how long the batteries will last.

There are a number of books that deal with 12v systems written for home use and motorhome use - here's one that assumes no knowledge at all:

Amazon.co.uk

Sorry if you know all this!

As a thought exercise - how many appliances could one use in a 12v manner? What I mean is as per your shepherds hut how many mod cons in the 12v range could one outfit an offgrid property with?

How close to modern living could go with minimal drop off in terms of optimal.

 

[TeeDee]

@slowworm Did you opt for anything in the end ? This is my big ticket item for before the end of the year and need to take a deep dive into making the right decision.

 

[Chris]

I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 1024W and it powered a small 20L car freezer on 12V over 3.5 days at last year’s WinterMoot, where the temperature was an annoying 12-14C most of the time. Perfectly happy with it.

Bought a folding/portable 220W solar panel and it recharged it in a few hours of winter ‘sun’ after that.

Ecoflow sells refurbished units for pretty decent prices on their ebay shop, worth a look there too.

I plan on fitting a solar panel to the roof of the shed and using it as a source of power in there, I can’t see myself needing any expansions for that purpose.

Really the best thing to do is work out your power consumption needs first and go from there.

 

[Broch]

As a thought exercise - how many appliances could one use in a 12v manner? What I mean is as per your shepherds hut how many mod cons in the 12v range could one outfit an offgrid property with?

How close to modern living could go with minimal drop off in terms of optimal.

Good question, I haven't used a huge range. The stuff I have used has mainly been lighting, laptops, refrigeration, device charging, power tool charging etc. A lot of stuff can be used through an inverter but many 240v appliances require hundreds if not thousands of watts. A 2kw device would require the 12v system to deliver 167Amps - 24 and 48 v systems proportionally less.

There are 12v 'assisted' devices such as portable gas powered fake log burners that use 12v to drive glow lighting and fan flame effects but those are just gimmicks really.

Anyway, rather than search for listed devices I asked ChatGPT to make a list of 12 and 24v appliances and tools - this is what it/he/she came up with:

Computing & communications​

Laptops
Laptop docking stations
Tablets
Mobile phones
E-readers
Small desktop/mini PCs
Computer monitors
Wi-Fi routers
Network switches
4G/5G routers
Starlink equipment
USB hubs
Phone/tablet chargers
Two-way radio chargers
Cordless-tool battery chargers
CCTV cameras and recorders
Small printers

Lighting
LED ceiling lights
LED strip lighting
Reading lamps
Desk lamps
Bedside lamps
Exterior/security lighting
Floodlights
Work lights
Garden lighting
Emergency lighting
Motion-sensor lights

Cooking
Portable refrigerators
Compressor cool boxes
Small freezers
Travel kettles
Coffee makers
Rice cookers
Slow cookers
Heated lunch boxes
Food warmers
Small ovens
Electric frying pans
Hot plates
Induction hobs
Toasters
Sandwich makers
Egg cookers
Food blenders
Hand mixers

Cleaning & household
Vacuum cleaners
Handheld vacuum cleaners
Wet/dry vacuums
Robot vacuum cleaners
Small washing machines
Portable washing machines
Spin dryers
Carpet/spot cleaners
Electric cleaning brushes
Window vacuums
Electric mops
Ultrasonic cleaners

Water & plumbing
Fresh-water pumps
Pressure pumps
Borehole/submersible pumps
Circulation pumps
Shower pumps
Bilge pumps
Sump pumps
Drainage pumps
Water-transfer pumps
Water purification systems
UV water sterilisation systems
Reverse-osmosis systems
Solenoid valves
Water-level controllers

Heating, cooling & ventilation
Fans
Ceiling fans
Extractor fans
Ventilation systems
Small air-conditioning units
Evaporative coolers
Diesel heater control/fan systems
Heated blankets
Heated seat pads
Heated clothing
Small DC water heaters
Dehumidifiers

Refrigeration
Fridges
Fridge/freezers
Freezers
Compressor cool boxes
Wine coolers
Medicine refrigerators

Bathroom & personal care
Electric toothbrush chargers
Water flossers
Electric shavers
Hair clippers
Small hair dryers
Shower pumps
Camping showers
Mirror lighting

Workshop & tools
Drills
Impact drivers
Impact wrenches
Screwdrivers
Rotary tools
Saws
Sanders
Grinders
Polishers
Soldering irons
Soldering stations
Glue guns
Air compressors
Tyre inflators
Battery chargers
Bench lighting
Small welders

Garden & outdoor​

Water pumps
Irrigation pumps
Irrigation controllers
Electric fencing
Gate openers
Greenhouse ventilation
Greenhouse lighting
Greenhouse irrigation
Pond pumps
Pond aerators
Pond filters
Outdoor lighting
Security cameras
Weather stations
Wildlife cameras
Electric sprayers

Entertainment​

Televisions
Radios
DAB radios
Bluetooth speakers
Hi-fi amplifiers
Car-type audio systems
Streaming boxes
Games consoles
Projectors
Satellite receivers
DVD/Blu-ray players

Other useful equipment​

12/24V battery chargers
Solar charge controllers
USB-C PD outlets
DC-DC converters
Battery monitors
Inverters
Emergency radios
Portable power tools
Electric cool boxes
Portable air compressors
Electric winches
Small hoists
Electric actuators
Motorised blinds
Automatic doors/gates
Alarm systems
Smoke/CO alarm systems