Eating from Natures larder

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Often overlooked in foraging are simple ethics and conservation. While some plants naturally produce massive abundances, others may be comparatively rare or slow to repropagate in certain areas. I was in a California Botony course on a field I.D. session. I was elated to discover a very rare single plant specimen, only to watch in horror as another student yanked it out and put it in his press.

 

[ScottC]

Quite right chris, conservation should always come first.

 

[falling rain]

Hello Young Bushman,
As regards roots

Burdock is a good root to gather about now. Look for the plants that are in their first year of growth. They'll have large leaves but no flowering stalks.
They're Biennials which means they have a 2 year growth cycle. Dig up the root and scrape off the outer (like you'd do with a carrot) Cut into pieces the size of the Maccie d's chips and fry in the frying pan. Taste a little like potato.
Plantain roots are another one I've tried. Dig up wash all the mud out of the strands and cut them off the plant and fry.
Dandelion - Dig up cut into small pieces, dry roast and use as Coffee

hope that is of a little help

 

[ScottC]

Thanks Falling Rain and everybody else for your help.

Today I discovered that a tree in our next door neighbours garden is an apple tree and part of the tree comes over our fence. So, what kind of dishes could I incorporate the apple into other than the obvious bread.

I also would like to know what tree the fruits/leaf comes from and are the fruits edible.

Thanks.

 

[Paganwolf]

elder berrys they be you can make wine from the fruit (not yet though eh give it 5 or 6 years ): ) apple and elder berry pie :shock: mmmmmmmm pie...also the flowers can be used for winemaking and can be dipped in a tempura batter and deep fried and drizzled with golden syrup mmmmmm syrup.... :shock: or made into a cordial, theres probably dosens more things you can make, help me out guys.. what about apple sauce or apple pie or apple sponge cake or mmmmmmmmmmm cake :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao:

 

[Ed]

also the flowers can be used for winemaking

I had a batch go through a second ferment after they had been bottled for about a year or so. It made a lovely sparkling wine.... aswell as a mess on the floor before I got the corks wired down

Ed

 

[Moonraker]

I also would like to know what tree the fruits/leaf comes from and are the fruits edible.

As Paganwolf says , It looks like Elder (Sambucus nigra).

A word of caution though about identing plants. From that view it is difficult to be positive on identification. Can I suggest a similar shot but ALSO with a close up of fruit, leaf structure and stem (all in one shot is fine. I don't mean just for this thread/ example but for any photos, which are useful for this).

Why? Because elder gives us a prime example of why we have to be careful.

Elder (Sambucus nigra) is a very useful forage plant with the flowers picked in late Springtime and used, for example, in elderflower cordial or wine or better still elderflower champagne! The berries as shown are also widely used in wine making, for a really nice jelly to go with game and for the purposes the Romans introduced it into Britain, as a natural dye, amongst many other uses. So it is a berry used for thousands of years as a food/ medicine, dye etc by man.

BUT it is POISONOUS! :shock:

The raw berries are poisonous and so are the leaves, bark and roots, both in humans and animals. Source: The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Foods 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi. An Illustrated Guide'. p. 33. ill. p. 17.

Poisonous Substances: Sambucus species contain a substance that causes vomiting and diarrhoea, and also cyanide-producing glycosides; all parts are poisonous.

Poisoning: human poisoning is most likely to occur from eating raw berries; even a few berries could lead to nausea, vomiting, stomach pains, diarrhoea, weakness and coma. In 1983, fruit juice, prepared by crushing elder berries, with their leaves, caused symptoms of poisoning within 15 minutes in a party of people in a remote area of California; the eight most serverely affected had to be flown to hospital by helicopter but all recovered quickly.

Presumably because of its bitter taste, animals do not eat Sambucus, but symptoms similar to those of human poisoning have been seen in pigs that ate the leaves. In one outbreak 14 of 50 pigs died; they had rapid breathing and heart rate, trembling and paralysis.

Professional advice should be sought if the symptoms are severe.

NOTE: heating destroys most of the toxicity, and the flowers and berries used for wine making or in pies are not harmful

note: I gave full details of this publication earlier in this thread. The work of MAFF is now overseen by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

Also it could easily be confused by the uninitiated with 'Dwarf elder' or danewort (Sambucus ebulus) which has an extremely bitter taste and poisonous like the other Sambucus species.

Poisoning, even mild cases if bad enough in normal day environments but when out bushcrafting it could be a lot more serious.

What does this mean? Be careful! But don't be put off foraging just be cautious and steer clear if you are at all unsure; and do take the time to read up beforehand either from books or the many resources on the net ( try to stick to more official sites to begin with as there is a lot of misinformation too).

To get an good idea of uses on Elder and many other wild plants you REALLY want to check out the 'Plants For A Future' web database (based in the UK but with a wordwide list) as it is an excellent resource both for plant usage and lots more detail. Here is the link to the PFAF Elder page to illustrate this:

Plants For A Future - Elder

just to show how important it is to check around though, on that page they state:

The fruit of many species (although no records have been seen for this species) has been known to cause stomach upsets to some people

When in fact a recorded incident from a reliable source is cited above.

Happy (and safe!) picking

Simon

 

[Tantalus]

looks like elder to me too

personally i wouldnt bother with them as a food, like others have said, raw they can have side effects

did make wine from them once upon a time but thats hardly bushcrafty lol

the leaves are useful for keeping flies at a distance, they used to tie em into horses bridles for this purpose

i often pick a leafy switch and wave it around my head, it seems to work well

Tant

 

[ScottC]

Ok so the fruits are poisonous raw but can be incorporated into things like, pies and made into sauces once cooked?

How do I tell the difference between the normal elderberry and the dwarf elderberry?

I'll take some closer pictures later.

 

[tomtom]

the berries are poisen?????????? :yikes: i have been eating them off the tree for years had a munch just last weekend doesnt seem to have done any harm.

 

[Paganwolf]

I think you will be ok if you are able to tipe !!! :rolmao: you have got to eat a lot of em matey dont write your will just yet, er what sort of knife have you got?? :rolmao: :rolmao:

 

[Moonraker]

I have eaten them too tomtom

The main point I was trying to make was that someone starting off in foraging can be better prepared than we were when eating the wild stuff. Sure, with a lot of this it is possible to eat stuff and not become ill through luck or judgement. But I think it is better people get educated about it and avoid the dangers. After all, few people would go out and nibble fungi in a similar way because there is a higher level of wariness so lets treat plants with the same respect.

 

[ScottC]

Well I went out today for a little forage and found apples, blackberries, rosehips, hawthorn ( I think), rowan fruit (I think), dandelion root, nettles and beech leaves.

Am I right in thinking this is rowan?

and am I right in thinking that this is Hawthorn?

Here is a picture of some of the bits.

Thanks

 

[Paganwolf]

not bad scotty, true words though stick to what you know and if in doubt leave it out

 

[Moonraker]

More On Poisonous Plants including Elder

To discuss eating poisonous plants. It is possible to eat them and not drop dead immediately. But there are many variables when it comes to toxicity of any individual plant. Again, as an example, the levels of the toxic components of Elder will vary depending on, age of plant; local ecology (growing conditions etc), genetic variation (through breeding etc), climate, even time of day! amongst others. So one Elder will vary in level of toxicity from another, even in the same hedgerow.

From what I have read the situation is this. The principal toxins in Elder are cyanogenic glycosides. By chewing the fresh plant material you release hydrogen cyanide (prussic acid), one of the most potent, rapidly acting, poisons known. Why can we 'get away' with eating some elderberries? It is explained here:

Cyanides inhibit the oxidative processes of cells causing them to die very quickly. Because the body rapidly detoxifies cyanide, an adult human can withstand 50-60 ppm for an hour without serious consequences. However, exposure to concentrations of 200-500 ppm for 30 minutes is usually fatal. Aside from death, acute cyanide toxicity at small doses can cause headache, tightness in throat and chest, and muscle weakness. The effects of chronic (long-term) exposure to cyanide are less well known.

Source: The atmospheric chemistry of HCN, CN and NCO. David Lary & Ralf Toumi.

Also:

Cyanogenic glycosides in the leaves and stems of plants are not toxic unless acted on by the plant or rumen microorganism enzymes, b-glucosidase and hydroxynitrile lyase, to form HCN [1,27]. Enzymatic conversion of the glycosides is enhanced when plant cells are damaged or stressed as occurs when the plant is chewed, crushed, droughted, wilted, or frozen. In the process, the glycosides, which are normally isolated in cell vacuoles, come into contact with the cell enzymes and HCN is formed. Generally most parts of the plant contain cyanogenic glycosides; the young rapidly growing portion of the plant and the seeds contain the highest concentrations.

The flesh of the ripe fruits is edible. Drying the plants decreases their cyanogenic potential especially over time........... The concentration of cyanogenic glycosides in plants varies with the stage of growth, time of year, soil mineral and moisture content, and time of day. Cool moist growing conditions enhance the conversion of nitrate to amino acids and cyanogenic glycosides instead of plant protein. As the glycosides accumulate they further inhibit nitrite reductase in the plant, favoring the conversion of nitrate to cyanogenic glycoside rather than to amino acids. Nitrate fertilization of cyanogenic plants therefore has the potential to increase the cyanogenic glycoside content of plants. Frost and drought conditions may also increase cyanogenesis in some plant species. Young plants, new shoots, and regrowth of plants after cutting often contain the highest levels of cyanogenic glycosides. Application of herbicides (2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid [2,4-D]) can also increase the cyanogenetic glycoside content of plants.

Source:Plants Causing Sudden Death. A. P. Knight and R. G. Walter .20-Aug-2002

You can read the full monty on this and other types of plant poisoning here:

Plants Causing Sudden Death

In summary then the toxicity of the plant dependants on many factors. The young, fast growing parts and notably the seeds contain the highest concentrations. The toxic substances are released when the plant/seeds are physically broken down through chewing but also wilted, droughted, frozen etc. The actual fresh of ripe fruits is edible. The danger (as with other plants containing cyanogenic glycoside including everyday fruits such as apples and pears) is chewing the seeds and releasing the cyanide in the form of HCN.

In elderberries the problem practically is that elderberries are small fruit with little flesh on each seed. naturally you are more likely to munch through a bunch. The other problem is how to tell what is a safe amount to eat?

Again this applies to other plants containing cyanogenic glycosides and the principal applies to all plants containing poisonous substances, not just this example of Elder.

We eat apples and pears and we don't die Why? because we are taught not to chew the pips as kids (and the need to eat a lot of fruit in this way to get to these dangerous levels). This is common knowledge even today given such knowledge is fast disappearing with modern convienence eating and living. Knowledge is our best ally when dealing with the unknown of 'wild food'.

I am sorry for the long post/s but I think it is an important element of the 'craft', of which we seek to learn; especially for beginners and when teaching/ sharing the enjoyment with kids.

Happy (and safe!) picking

 

[Paganwolf]

try Rivercottage.net forum for more foody stuff scotty lots of knowledgable folks in the foody world :wave:

 

[Moonraker]

Well I went out today for a little forage and found apples, blackberries, rosehips, hawthorn ( I think), rowan fruit (I think), dandelion root, nettles and beech leaves.

Nice photos Scott! Much more useful.

From what I can see:

Am I right in thinking this is rowan?

Yes. At least it is a species of Sorbus. Rowan's botanic name is Sorbus aucuparia. Again, without actually seeing the tree it came from etc it is impossible to be 100% sure. In a remote rural location most probably. In a rural/ suburban location it could be another related species planted for ornamental purposes i.e. as a street tree or garden specimen. But this is not so important because these would be edible like Rowan. This is the case for 'Whitebeam' (Sorbus aria).

Checking 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi' MAFF (see other posts for details) it says:

Sorbus species. garden and wild trees. Eating a large number of berries, especially when unripe, can cause mild digestive-system disturbances

. Rowan is used in wine making and also commonly used to make a jelly.

and am I right in thinking that this is Hawthorn?

Yes. But is it Black, Common, Downy, English, Midland or Scarlet Hawthorn?!:shock: All of which can be found in Britain (and other related ornamental species). Actually looking at the leaves it is either 'Common Hawthorn' (Crateagus monogyna) or 'Midland Hawthorn' (Crateagus laevigata. also known as May or English Hawthorn. It does not just grow in the Midlands and is a native).

Do something for me. Squeeze one of the ripe fruits. If it has one stone it is Common Hawthorn. If two, it is Midland Hawthorn. A nice trick to show people in the field

Here is a picture of some of the bits.

The apples if they came from a hedge are probably a self-seeded crosses between the Crab Apple (Malus sylvestris) and cultivated apple species grown in the garden. Sometimes apple is planted in the hedgerow (as was and still partially is the case in this area of France where all available property was productive).

Dandelion tap roots dug up in the Autumn can be treated like Salsify. So you could try out this recipe subing the Dandelion root for Salsify and use your Apples too

Salsify and Apple Sauté

Cooking Time: 25mins

Serves 4

Ingredients:

2 tbsp Lemon Juice
4 Salsify[Dandelion] Roots, peeled
1 tbsp Olive Oil
Salt and Black Pepper
2 small Apples, peeled and cored

[I would add a bit of sugar if the apples are not fully ripe]

Instructions

1.* Place the lemon juice in a bowl of water which is large enough to hold the salsify.

2. Cut the salsify into batons about 12mm/1/2 inch x 12mm/1/2 inch x 5cm/2 inches long, immediately submerging them in the lemon water to prevent discoloration.

3. Cut the peeled apples into quarters then cut each quarter into three pieces.

4. Heat the oil in a large frying pan over a medium heat.

5. Meanwhile, drain the salsify and dry on kitchen paper then add to the frying pan and sauté gently for about 8 minutes. Season with salt and pepper.

6. Add the apple slices to the pan and continue to cook for 5-8 minutes, turning, until golden brown.

7. Adjust the seasoning and serve hot.

Bonne Appetit!

 

[ScottC]

Thanks all,

The Hawthorn has one stone in it so like you say, it must be common Hawthorn. Also thanks ALOT for that link to Plants For A future, it is very helpful! :biggthump

 

[Moonraker]

Thanks all,

The Hawthorn has one stone in it so like you say, it must be common Hawthorn. Also thanks ALOT for that link to Plants For A future, it is very helpful! :biggthump

Simple Native British Tree & Shrub Identification

Scott, the PFAF is a great resource but not great for photos or identifying the plants. A site which has a very good guide to the identification of 80 common British trees and shrubs can be found here:

SAPS-A Key for Identifying British Trees and Shrubs

It is a very useful aid to identification including a section for those trees & shrubs you already know the name of and also a great section for identing those which you do not. It guides you first through how to use the site, then through a series of questions (in which you also pick up some important basic botany) which lead to the plant you have, assuming it is a common one.

Here is an example of how to use the site for identifying an unknown tree ( as it happens this example is our friend the Elder ;-) )

SAPS- How to use the key to identify a twig of Elder

It is a resource intended for schools and therefore fairly simplified and not intended for the experienced forager. But the content was produced by Prof. Franklyn Perrin who is one of the best regarded botanists in Britain. Perfect for the beginner.

Happy picking

Simon

 

[Stuart]

Fantastic posts Moonraker :You_Rock_

ever thought of writing some stuff to help grow the Epaedia in the 200 degrees section