Down sleeping bag features vs. minimalist bags

[VirusKiller]

I'm still on the AlpKit waiting list for a PipeDream 400 or 600, but I was wondering what others think of sleeping bag "features" in bags produced by the "majors". Cost aside, for 300g or so over the equivalent AlpKit bag, you can get a Lightline or Frostline ME bag with:

• Vertical V, box wall and slant wall baffles
• Anatomical hood with "Halo" baffle (what ever that is!)
• 7 baffle foot plug and shark's toe design
• Enhanced neck and zip baffles
• Supersoft lining
• Drilite Loft outer shell
• etc.

I can see a lot of merit in advanced baffle construction to stop the down shifting and thus eliminate cold spots. The highly water resistant shell sounds attractive. etc. etc.

Thoughts? Do any or all of these bag features really make a difference over a minimalist, box wall construction, bag? FWIW, the street price premium of an ME Lightline is less that 50% over a PipeDream 400, which brings it into my reckoning.

 

[gregorach]

I haven't tried enough down bags to compare, but the reason I went for a down bag in the first place was absolute minimum weight and pack size. My Rab Quantum 200 is about as minimalist as it gets, and I'm happy with it - an extra 300g would increase its weight by a little over 50%.

 

[VirusKiller]

I agree about weight Dunc. I'm just trying to canvas opinion as to whether or not these features are worth the weight. The alternatives I'm looking at are:

AlpKit PipeDream 400 (-3° 750g)
ME Lightline (-5° 1130g)
"Feature difference" = 380g (+50&#37

AlpKit PipeDream 600 (-10° 950g)
ME Frostline (-10° 1290g)
"Feature difference" = 340g (+36%)

I have started another thread regarding whether or not to go for a 3+ or 4 season bag: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38763

 

[Wink]

I have the ME lightline, but haven't seen an Alpkit bag in the flesh. The Lightline is a very well made bag, the arrangement of the baffles across the chest sems to be superior to cheaper down bag arrangements, keeps the down where it should be and allows full loft. The fabric is highly water-resistant on the shell, but also round the inside of the hood, where your breath could make the down damp. The other main feature is the elasticated inner skin. This means the bag fits close to the body, minimising air pockets and keeping you warmer for the same amount of fill weight, but without feeling restrictive due to the elastic. Because the outer skin is not elasticated, it maximises the space for the down to loft into. Whether this makes it a better bag than the Alpkit is for you to decide!

Oh, and down bags don't feel quite so clammy as synthetics do when you are too warm, they seem to be more forgiving in that way.

 

[bigbear]

I suspect that like many performance issues, the extras in the build quality will make most difference if you are at the extreme end of the performance range. So in a bag used at or near ( or below) its minimum temperature rating you may well notice the difference between one with and one without the extra features, but if you are mostly using it within its intended range you should be fine with the lighter cheaper option.
Like so much else, ask yourself what you are going to use it for, and is it worth paying more for functionality and features you may rarely or never use ?
That said, there is a lot of high end Goretex that only ever walks dogs in the park, but if it makes the owners happy........

 

[VirusKiller]

I was out at the weekend in a freshly cleaned Pattern 58 down bag. Not quite a frost, but close and I felt comfortably warm. Now I realize that the 58 isn't exactly a state-of-the-art bag, but...

Firstly, there were cold spots on the central zip (no inside baffle) and at the edges of the bag where there is minimal down. Second, I've never really been able to get the hang of its hood so air was getting in at my shoulders.

In short, I'm very tempted by a Lightline due to its construction and extra baffles.

I did think of something else to "justify" the weight increase. If I consider the weight of my complete sleep system (= tarp, bivvy bag, mat and bag), a weight penalty of 380g isn't that much of an increase. On the the other hand, 380g is 380g...

 

[VirusKiller]

Choice now even more difficult. The AK PipeDream 400 and 600 have risen by £20 to £130 and £150 respectively, and I can get an ME Lightline for £145...

 

[discoveringtheforest]

Ive a ME Downbag from the zero range,a recent up grade from the snug pak 3 I used all year around for many years.
Have to say the pack size is very similar as is the weight,which for a lightweight backpacker as myself is important.
I will also say once you go down id say it would be hard to go back.
In my opinon they are the bee's knee's

 

[shep]

I'm a great lover of down too, but am pretty cynical about overzealous R+D departments having to reinvent the wheel. My current bag is by Western Mountaineering.

A zip baffle is a must (mine has a nice touch which is some stiffening so it doesn't catch).

I find shoulder baffles really annoying and never use them.

'Halo baffle' to me = woolly hat

Shark's toe might be useful if you sleep only on your back and never toss and turn. = pointless for me

Supersoft lining: Might be nice, but never a dealbreaker.

Weatherproof outer shell depends on your use. I would never trust it as my only protection from the elements. Maybe with a good forecast, you might use your tarp alone and leave the bivvi bag at home. On the other hand, it probably adds weight and if you wouldn't rely on it anyway...

I like the idea of the elastic lining that maximizes your loft. I'm also tempted by the bags that have some movement in the knee section for when I'm having a rough night.

 

[VirusKiller]

I went for the discounted ME Lightline. In the end, I had to be honest with myself and comfort won over weight: It is more roomy, has a great zip baffle, better baffles all over to prevent down movement, plus the water resistant outer. As bigbear pointed out, some of these features will probably only be useful at the bag's limits, but I figured that I will be using it at or close to those limits in Winter.

Many thanks to all who've posted their thoughts.