Don't Like A Sanded Finish ?

[petrochemicals]

I was watching the box yesterday, a rundown of the various things that have appeared on "Flog It" with paul martin. Amongst the 900 pound tiles and the anatomical models was a segment on violins and more importantly restoring them. There was a fellow in liverpool called Michael Phoenix in liverpool who was demonstrating the restoration of antique violins, and also showing his strativarias tequniques copied from the master, even down to working by candel light.

http://www.phoenixviolins.com/Pages/default.aspx

Now his construction tools where as you can imagine, quite specialist, down from huge hand gouges to a set of tiny box plains. One thing that did get me was he used a scraper as he said "sandpaper tears the fibres of the wood". I know its a violin, but some on here like a tooled finish, so i thought if you wanted you could have a look at his craftmanship in tayloring wood, the bit with the scraper is about 7mins in. He also says some interesting stuff about the varnish he uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZD5fhLDhgk&app=desktop

 

[Macaroon]

Interesting stuff - I've always been a big user of scrapers, my dad was a time served coachbuilder and he passed that tip on to me, amongst many others that I stupidly paid not enough heed to; the folly of youth!

Scrapers leave a really nice finish, are very easy to make, maintain and use. There's loads of good stuff on youtube about them, well worth a gander.........Good post

 

[Fraxinus]

Very cool. He is dead right about sandpaper but it is the easiest and cheapest way to get a finish on wood.
Years ago we had to make some oak doors and the spec' was that only hand planes and scrapers were to be used, it took ages so we made it a bit of a competition to see who could get the longest shaving.

Rob.

P.S. In Germany I was shown how to use off cuts of glass as scrapers, it works very well but you need to be careful.

 

[Janne]

You can also use a smooth/glossy implement (large glass marble, large ball bearing) to finish the smoothing of the surface. Similar o burnishing.

But, if you plan to lacquer the surface, you can get an interesting, 3D effect by NOT fine sanding. apply the lacquer in several layers, dry between, then gently sand the top layer smooth, then apply a couple of finishing layers.

If I want a super smooth surface, after I reach a sandpaper around 400 grit, I wet the wood. The fibers will go "erect" and the next sanding(800 grit or so) will smooth these off.

I have tried Shark skin as sand paper, and Sting ray skin to finish, but modern sandpapers do an equally good job, but much faster ( and much, much cheaper!)

 

[Robson Valley]

That's a fact: sandpapers shred the surface, coarse shredding or fine shredding, still shredding.

Most of my wood carvings have many compound surfaces so sanding between coats of finish is useless.
Instead, I use extremely coarse steel wool = the fibers are flat, not round. As a direct result, the steel wool
acts like a million chisels to cut off any upstanding wood fiber. AND barely, barely disturbing the layers of finish!
Don't scrub the surface, just go gently and let it cut. Your fingertip sensations will tell you when you're done.

 

[Janne]

Do you use the steel wool before varnishing too? Do you erect the fibers with water before you use the steel wool?

The scraping as in the first post is fine on large flat surfaces. We learned that tech in woodwork in secondary school, but I have not used it since.

 

[Fraxinus]

Wetting wood will cause the fibres to swell (expand) so subsequent sanding will flatten the surface and if using water based finishes will not swell so much as that most of the finish is removed in flattening the surface down again. It is a technique those of us who work with wood as a living know very well. This is also evident when you oil your latest spoon carving so you need to use an abrasive to smooth it down again, little hint: wet it and re-sand before oiling. Even tool finished items will become rough to the touch after oiling depending on the wood used.
I'd also add that some tannin rich hardwoods will be a problem for the use of wire wool and result in some staining. (bits of the wire wool get embedded in the wood and cause blue staining after the item has been finished) that said I believe Robson carves mostly tannin deficient timbers.
Robson, you can correct me if I am mistaken.

Rob.

 

[Robson Valley]

Fraxinus, you're correct. I'm convinced that the best finishing method depends on the species of wood in the project.
I made my own scrapers from hard steel lumber strapping, according to the instructions in Leonard Lee's book:
"The Complete Guide To Sharpening." As LL points out, they don't work well at all in the soft woods that I like to carve
such as western red cedar (Thuja plicata) and yellow cedar (Chamycyparis nootkatensis).

The best option is to use very coarse steel wool with its flat strands. I'll never use fine steel wool for the very reason
that you point out = the crap powders and leaves little fragments all over the wood. Don't know about anywhere else
but we have 4 grades of BullDog brand steel wool. The XX Coarse works best.

 

[Fraxinus]

Robson, I have in the past made my own scrapers, mostly to use as moulding tools to form a moulding to match existing joinery and any thin steel was fair game
Not come across flat strand wire wool over here except for those pan scourers sold in supermarkets, here the wire wool is round wire of differing size and quality (read: holding up to use) is variable.

Rob.

 

[Robson Valley]

No flat-stranded wire wool. Huh. That explains why I've not been able to explain the technique before.
When I carved spoons, forks and some adze handles in birch, the scrapers were best to clean off the tool marks for a nice surface.

Question: does a pan scourer do the job for raised wood fibers? I've not needed to experiment.
At the very end, many carvers will burnish their project with plain Kraft brown paper bag. It works.

 

[tombear]

I'm trying to use scrapers more, I've a nasty habit of sanding too much. My tool guy has a lovely condition Stanley 112 ( I think ) scraper plane for about half everyone else is selling them for but still a bit rich for my blood. I love the finish they leave.

Cheers for the link.

ATB

Tom

 

[Robson Valley]

Took me a while to learn to get a good burr on the edge. Then, they do cut so well.

I joint the edge of the steel with a chalked file until I think I've got it sort of squared off.
Then I upset the corner with the tang of the file.

Part of my need is that the sandgrains come off the papers and a few always get embedded in the wood.
I have a (bad) habit of finding just one more needed cut with a gouge.
Repairing a gouge with sand grain damage is tedious.