Dog Chew / rawhide rambling and request for advice

[sparkplug]

Hi everyone,

After a long absence from tinkering about with knives I finally finished a small knife I made as a gift and decided that I would put a bit more effort into the sheath than I normally do.

I have no leather working tools or skills and all my knives are practical tools which get used so I normally make do with a cardboard/gaffer tape sort of sheath.

I looked into kydex as it seems fairly easy to use, but I thought it was too 'tactical' and out of keeping with the cocobolo handle which I made.

I then came across the idea of using rawhide from a dog chew bone and it really appealed to me.

My first rough attempt worked quite well, but I learned that using a small bulldog clip to hold it together while it dried worked well, but also left an unsightly dent in the sheath! The knife itself sits perfectly in it and even without having sewn or fastened the 'open' edge the knife won't come out of the sheath unless you pull it out. Very satisfied!

I think I'm going to take the current 'dented' sheath and use it as a template to create a cardboard or wood 'negative' so I can put it over the rawhide and clamp onto that to (hopefully) leave a smoother finish.

Someone suggested to me that I could dye the sheath using coffee grounds and this appealed to me for two reasons. Firstly I had some coffee grounds which I hadn't quite put in the compost yet and secondly because I liked the idea of using natural materials.

So I took a small scrap piece of hide, soaked it in warm water until soft and then buried it in the coffee grounds and left it overnight. The end result was slightly underwhelming. Although some colour did take it wasn't nearly as dark as I'd hoped.

This is the part where the rambling turns into asking for suggestions. Much as I'm enjoying experimenting I also need to get this finished and sent off!
Do I just repeat the coffee grounds dying process but leave it in for longer? Two days? A week?
Do I try some leather dye instead?
If anyone has done this already I would love to hear what you did.

The other piece of advice I'm after is about sewing / fixing / securing the 'open' part of the sheath. The knife is going to be a thread cutter for a sewing kit (ironically the very thing I need advice on) so I thought it might be a bit different to sew some small buttons on - or maybe even some of those small metal rivets. I was also considering some eyelets and running a piece of ribbon through the holes or something similar.

I don't want to have to invest in expensive tooling - but don't really have much experience. I guess the cheapest option would be needle and thread and some small buttons - but what kind of thread, what sort of needle?

I'm open to options, suggestions, comments and ridicule!

Over to you:

 

[Janne]

Thank you for your post. I am in the same position as you, just have not reached the making bit yet, as I have been unsure about some aspects.
I have 6 knives that need a sheath.

One idea I am toying with is using a couple of hairclips, the ones with 'teeth' to hold the leather together while it dries. The indentations I thought I drill into, with a very fine drill, then sew.

My thinking with drilling holes is that Raw leather is much to hard to use an awl in, might be difficult.

I am not sure about using coffee grounds. I would not soak the raw hide to long, it will start decomposing.

I think ( n.b. - 'think') that the hide could be soaked in BLO until soft, then form, let the oil harden, then stich?

Does the oil preserve the hide? I do not know.

I hope a seasoned leather craftsman chimes in!!

Thread - I will be using medical Suturing Silk I am going to infuse with bees wax. I am unable to buy anything else, but waxed linen thread is more appropriate?
I will also try to use fibers from the local Silver Thatch palm. Strong fibers.

Needle - from a haberdashers, a thick kind of sewing needle, also found a metal thimble to protect my finger.

 

[Polecatsteve]

Speedy (hah) stitcher sewing awl. For when your sail fails you and you have 3 months to mend it......

Joking aside. Amazing hand tool which I have used for this very project.

 

[Janne]

If a water based outdoir colour/tint was used, would it stay? Thinking those stains for outdoor furniture, the ones that need a top coat of oil or laquer.

 

[Janne]

An idea, do you have an oldfashioned shoe fixing place nearby?
They will have thread possibly colour.

 

[SaraR]

With the coffee grinds, normally (for wood) you soak them in liquid and then paint that liquid on and let it dry.

 

[sparkplug]

Thanks SaraR - I'm trying a couple of variations of that now. Will report back with results.

Polecatsteve - that looks like an interesting little tool and not too expensive. Did you stitch it while the hide was still wet/soft or will that make a decent job of going through it when it's dry?

Janne - some good thread suggestions. I'll do a bit more research based on that.

 

[JohnC]

It may not be in keeping with the natural side of things that you are aiming for, but dental floss (non-minty) makes a good strong stitching thread. The artificial sinew that I like to use is basically that with colouring and more wax.

 

[sparkplug]

Thanks JohnC - I like using natural materials, especially if they are to hand and free, but let's face it you don't just dig bits of stainless steel out of the ground, nor the epoxy which I used to secure handle to blade! Your suggestion is a good one.

So for those interested in the rambling, I'm doing three tests with the coffee stain.

1) Soak rawhide in hot water until soft, bury in coffee grounds (exactly like I did first time) but leave for 48 hours
2) Soak rawhide in hot coffee (it did immediately show some colour) until soft, bury in coffee grounds and leave for 48 hours
3) Leave rawhide dry and stiff, make up sludge from coffee and coffee grounds, paint on and leave for 48 hours

Just a day and a half until we have some results!

 

[Janne]

Interesting!
But, will soaking in hot water not start boiling (coagulating) the hide?

Floss: The knots can be difficult. Open up. Floss has a highly 'slick' surface, specially the GoreTex one.

You can buy thick Cotton thread in any shop that sell these things.

 

[sparkplug]

The water / coffee I've used has been warm not boiling hot and doesn't seem to have negatively affected any of the test pieces I've done to date

 

[Janne]

Excellent.

Would using a slurry of tea leaves/warm water work?

 

[Polecatsteve]

Thanks SaraR - I'm trying a couple of variations of that now. Will report back with results.

Polecatsteve - that looks like an interesting little tool and not too expensive. Did you stitch it while the hide was still wet/soft or will that make a decent job of going through it when it's dry?

Janne - some good thread suggestions. I'll do a bit more research based on that.

It was warm / softened. The needle is extremely heavy duty (you get 2 types) and it has a nice long spool of heavy waxed thread inside it. A great wee tool yep.

 

[sparkplug]

OK so here's the results:

1) The starting point. No stain applied
2) Soaked in warm water until soft, buried in damp coffee grounds and left 48 hours
3) Same as above, but soaked in warm coffee
4) Left dry and painted with a coffee/coffee ground slurry

You can see the knife and the first sheath (complete with clamp marks and warping) The red line is where I think I will trim it back to.

So far No 3 is my favourite, but I'm going to try to see if I can get some turmeric on it to make the colour a bit warmer rather than being so brown.

Thoughts / comments appreciated

 

[sparkplug]

While I am doing pictures, here is an illustration of what I meant by making a template in negative to clamp the sheath.

In the meantime the dyed rawhide pieces are drying and as they are they are changing - I'm liking No 3 more now (placed it agains the handle to show how it might look)

 

[Keith_Beef]

Instead of stitching with thread, you could lace the edge with a thin strip of rawhide cut from the piece you use to make the sheath. Use a narrow chisel to cut elongated holes for lacing.

 

[sparkplug]

That's a really interesting option Keith_Beef.

I really liked the contrast between the coffee stain and the untreated colours when I laid the sample piece on the handle for the photo above, so this could be one way of achieving it.

I'm thinking that some sort of punch to cut a nice round (less prone to tearing) hole could work, with the thin strip of untreated rawhide running through it.

I also think it might work better going round the holes to the outside rather than running parallel to the curve of the blade.

Something like this:

Start from the tip and work back towards the handle and maybe tie off leaving a trailing piece there. Let's face it, I'm not going to find a tidy way of tying off at the tip with material that will go hard when dry!

 

[Janne]

Fabulous. Does the hide stretch well, and shrink when it dries?

I think a better template would be of you use thin boards or plywood. You know, the boards you can take from fruit packaging ( source - supermarket) or similar.

Also, does the hide smell?

 

[sparkplug]

Janne - yes the stretch is good enough for forming to fit the shape of the knife and not too bad on the shrinkage. I'd deliberately allowed for some excess in the first sheath attempt for shrinkage and I massively over estimated it. As you can see from the red marker line, that's where I was hoping for it to shrink back to, so much less than I'd thought.

I'd thought about plywood, and I think it might be too rigid. The cardboard should (I hope) have enough flexibility to allow for a natural form while protecting sufficiently from the aggressive bite of the clips. Time will tell!

Smell - no, nothing I can detect. It's still not completely dry and I suppose it smells a little bit like coffee wet! Will update once it's properly dry

 

[Tengu]

This is interesting; I picked up some massive plaited chews at half price.

Its not always easy to get decent rawhide.

One went to my Experimental Archaeologist tutor but I have two more to decide what to do with.

(Her dog had better not get near it)