Mixed up the airports, broke a window and then almost missed your flight ... sounds more like Frank Spencer than Roy 'Chubby' Brown
Do not choose to Fly KLM Dutch airlines.
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Mixed up the airports, broke a window and then almost missed your flight ... sounds more like Frank Spencer than Roy 'Chubby' Brown
Goodness me i think i've entered the twilight zone here.
We've got a member saying that security procedures are "oppressing the people" and then seems to be condoning physically abusing security staff.
The another one that seems to think all airport security staff are "officious little dictators"
We've gone from the realms of a logical intelligent discussion into some absurd exaggeration.
Are there some people working in airport security that have bad attitudes, yep
Are there some that are inexperienced, yep
How is that different from any other walk of life though?
Your garage mechanic could be a jerk, the cashier at the post office, your postman/woman
I always thought that part of growing up and becoming a adult was that you accepted that, and came to the conclusion that there are jerks in the world and tarring every, job, social group, hair colouring, race etc with the same brush is lazy, inaccurate and just plain wrong.
You cannot take large bottles of fluids through the security checkpoint.
It's been like that for a while now, it's clearly posted around every airport i've visited, so how can you complain that they see a large container of liquid in your bag and take it from you?
What makes you special, why do the rules that EVERY other single person has to adhere to not apply to you?
We've entered the twilight zone again
So there is a real threat, someone tried to take down a passenger plane by smuggling bomb making materials in their shoe.
Yet you think it's unreasonable for new methods to be bought into place to check passengers shoes
As i've said before we have absolutely no idea of what threats have been received, you have no idea how the security systems have been adapted or updated to detect new threats.
Yet with no experience, knowledge or data you jump to the conclusion that a procedure has been reversed.
It's easy to jump to conclusion based upon data and experiences that you've formed to fit into a predetermined opinion.
It's something else for the people who do make these decisions for your security when flying to try and balance everything.
They also have a LOT of responsibility, imagine they crumble and skip a security procedure because some passengers have complained, only for these scumbag terrorists to use the loophole to cause another Lockerbie.
It's a sad fact but there are a fair few determined and well trained people out there that want to harm as many civilians as they can.
Rather than complain about security procedures bought into place based upon information you know nothing about, maybe it would be better to aim your anger towards them?
We've got a member saying that security procedures are "oppressing the people" and then seems to be condoning physically abusing security staff.
The another one that seems to think all airport security staff are "officious little dictators"
We've gone from the realms of a logical intelligent discussion into some absurd exaggeration.
Are there some people working in airport security that have bad attitudes, yep
Are there some that are inexperienced, yep
How is that different from any other walk of life though?
Your garage mechanic could be a jerk, the cashier at the post office, your postman/woman
I always thought that part of growing up and becoming a adult was that you accepted that, and came to the conclusion that there are jerks in the world and tarring every, job, social group, hair colouring, race etc with the same brush is lazy, inaccurate and just plain wrong.
You cannot take large bottles of fluids through the security checkpoint.
It's been like that for a while now, it's clearly posted around every airport i've visited, so how can you complain that they see a large container of liquid in your bag and take it from you?
What makes you special, why do the rules that EVERY other single person has to adhere to not apply to you?
We've entered the twilight zone again
So there is a real threat, someone tried to take down a passenger plane by smuggling bomb making materials in their shoe.
Yet you think it's unreasonable for new methods to be bought into place to check passengers shoes
As i've said before we have absolutely no idea of what threats have been received, you have no idea how the security systems have been adapted or updated to detect new threats.
Yet with no experience, knowledge or data you jump to the conclusion that a procedure has been reversed.
It's easy to jump to conclusion based upon data and experiences that you've formed to fit into a predetermined opinion.
It's something else for the people who do make these decisions for your security when flying to try and balance everything.
They also have a LOT of responsibility, imagine they crumble and skip a security procedure because some passengers have complained, only for these scumbag terrorists to use the loophole to cause another Lockerbie.
It's a sad fact but there are a fair few determined and well trained people out there that want to harm as many civilians as they can.
Rather than complain about security procedures bought into place based upon information you know nothing about, maybe it would be better to aim your anger towards them?
The rules on taking off shoes have been relaxed kinda proves they weren't needed in the first place.
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Mixed up the airports, broke a window and then almost missed your flight ... sounds more like Frank Spencer than Roy 'Chubby' Brown
There are some similarities I'll grant you... I do my own stunts too!
You see that people are no longer taking shoes off and decide that fits your preformed conclusion that it was a stupid idea.
A conclusion that is formed by having no knowledge or experience of the scanning systems, and no knowledge or experience of the security procedures.
Has the scanning equipment been updated to cover this threat?
Has other equipment been bought into use that cover this threat?
Are there updates to procedures that cover this threat?
How can you reach a reliable conclusion without having access to ALL this information?
No other procedures have changed
All 'new' precautions are implemented after the need for them had occurred. This implies we have a reactionary system.
Some are implemented because a politician has a vested interest in a piece of equipment that they then insist is to be mandatory thus making a lot of money.
If you are implying that everything is done solely for our safety and none of it is for politics, Propaganda or profit then I suggest you do a bit more reading.
cbr6fs and mountainm, step back and take a deep breath, this isn't the place for this discussion.
If you want to carry on take it to pm.
Thanks
If you want to carry on take it to pm.
Thanks
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Is this correct? My Mother worked security at Heathrow after she retired from being a teacher, she loved the job and did it right up until she became to ill to work. Admittedly this was about 10 years ago, hence, I'm asking if it's the same or changed. Mum worked directly for BAA, the passengers most definitely were her customers and she was trained and actively encouraged to be helpful to passengers (clearly not to bend/break or otherwise effect the rules in the process of) as she could be. In turn they were accountable to, sanctioned by and, in Mum's own words "terrified of" the DoT inspectors and assessors. The CAA had nothing to do with it....the authority was DoT and the employer was BAA.
Not sure how all this helps the Op.....but there we go
Spot on Sandbender
My addition....
Or just drop it completely before you guys end up unhappy with each other
easier to just accept others opinions sometimes and move on, it make is much easier on the rest of us as well, especially the mods that have to keep an eye on how things like this escalate
To be honest I'm tired of going back and editing out all the autocorrections. It's not easy writing long messages with quotes in on a phone. Especially when the response is the length of War and peace.
Of course it's reactionary, as they do not have the ability to see in the future it's the only possible way.
How is security services reacting to a threat a bad thing?
Politicians have absolutely no direct input into what security systems airports put into place.
In the UK the Civil aviation authority are the main point of reference, this is the organisation that amalgamates all the information and formulates a strategy.
In the case of the shoes a quick system was bought into place that has now been superseded by a more accurate and far better system that also is less of a inconvenience for the passengers.
Companies HAVE to make a profit from selling equipment and services, how else should they run?
If you are suggesting that there is a massive conspiracy in place then im sorry but i am not going down that path.
You have strong opinions on this subject but have offered no qualifications or experience to back up your suppositions.
Do you work with or around airport security?
Do you have any experience with the procedures or detections systems that airports use?
As i say i have been working within the airport security field for the last 15 years.
From a passengers point of view things may not look like they have changed, from a engineering point of view they have changed dramatically
The problem is Sandbender that this is my livelihood that people are talking nonsense about.
It's the job i've done for the last 15 years.
I can understand that internet myths have built up and that there are misconceptions, so my hope was that i could offer another side of the coin to better help people understand.
Unfortunately MM is obviously perturbed, so has a conclusion that will justify no matter what the actual facts are.
I don't know what you do for a living, but what MM and xylaria are effectively doing is saying ALL mechanics are jerks and that car manufacturers and politicians are in on it.
Even though they are not car mechanics, don't know a car mechanic, know nothing about car mechanics but their opinion is right even though a car mechanic is telling them otherwise.
I understand the annoyance i see it daily at work.
But so much is happening behind the scenes that an opinion formed from a glance in front of the curtain is absolutely useless.
Is this correct? My Mother worked security at Heathrow after she retired from being a teacher, she loved the job and did it right up until she became to ill to work. Admittedly this was about 10 years ago, hence, I'm asking if it's the same or changed. Mum worked directly for BAA, the passengers most definitely were her customers and she was trained and actively encouraged to be helpful to passengers (clearly not to bend/break or otherwise effect the rules in the process of) as she could be. In turn they were accountable to, sanctioned by and, in Mum's own words "terrified of" the DoT inspectors and assessors. The CAA had nothing to do with it....the authority was DoT and the employer was BAA.
Not sure how all this helps the Op.....but there we go
Things have changed dramatically, even now it's a minefield of authorities and regulations.
The CAA took over the majority of the regulation last year, but as i said you have to think that if a plane is leaving the airspace of one governing body into another then regulations can change.
Certain flights to certain countries have stricter rules.
Usually the security personnel in Europe are employed by a sub contractor, so although the charges that airlines pay the airport do inadvertently go to pay these sub contractors they do not work directly for the airlines.
Different airports will use different systems, different countries likewise, but generally at most airports they are sub contractors
Spot on Sandbender
My addition....
Or just drop it completely before you guys end up unhappy with each other
As i say my intention was to offer another side in the hope that those who are obviously annoyed could maybe have a bit more understanding in why things SEEM to be illogical/
I agree though that since we started getting into the realms of fantasy and arguing in the face of all other experience and logic it's started getting silly.
I will monitor the thread in case anyone has legitimate questions i feel i can answer but won't get drawn into the twilight zone anymore
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