did I see an unusual fox??

[Toddy]

Mind we have no other predator of that type to compete with the foxes now. No wolves, no coyotes, no other wild dogs or very many wildcats. So the fox is likely slowing filling an empty space too. I know that folks who shoot them often say they're gotten bigger, and I know the one I saw loup across the road in front of me was definitely big enough that I thought canid rather than fox. It was definitely a fox though. It was as big as the alsation next door, and that's no small beast.
Not saying they're all bigger, they're not, but there do seem to be sports out there, and more of them being commented upon these days too.

M

 

[Toddy]

I

It would appear extremely, unlikely but remotely possible http://www.macroevolution.net/dog-fox-hybrids.html

Not one genetic sample showing it to be so, and on a quick trawl though it seems to be the case for most of the oddities that the site comments upon. The cow/horse for example. They found a cow with a weird looking back end, and no udder, so it must be half horse

There's just too much difference between vulpes and canis to make it work outside of a laboratory specialising in fertility issues, and I doubt even they'd manage to make it work.

M

 

[santaman2000]

Not one genetic sample showing it to be so, and on a quick trawl though it seems to be the case for most of the oddities that the site comments upon. The cow/horse for example. They found a cow with a weird looking back end, and no udder, so it must be half horse

There's just too much difference between vulpes and canis to make it work outside of a laboratory specialising in fertility issues, and I doubt even they'd manage to make it work.

M

It was the first article other than wiki that I found. To be honest even they approach it with a healthy scepicism.

 

[Laurentius]

Strange things happen in and around Thetford, it was the chupacabra for sure.

 

[Toddy]

I know what you mean Dan. I think you're right about scepticism.

When I was very little and tv's were small and only in black and white, and the channels switched off at bedtime. I overheard two teachers talking about the benefits of tv in every home. One said, "There will be no more ignorant children, they'll all learn so very much about so many things".....and now we have the internet. The only real issue with either is that one is rather dependent upon the quality of the education/knowledge/bias or otherwise of whoever uploaded information.....and it's no easy task checking that.
Look for the agenda behind the propaganda we're taught in school, but if one only reads views that agree with our own, we're no further forward really.
I don't think we've quite cracked the, 'no more ignorant children' (or grown ups either) but there's a heck of a lot more information available, that's true enough

Funnily enough, my Grandpa (probably just stirring for an argument, he liked setting folks off ) said he didn't believe that men had landed on the moon.
"But ye saw it on TV !", was the reply. To which the Auld Yin answered, "Aye, and I saw Mickey Mouse on TV too!".
Not quite sure what he'd have made of the internet

Large foxes though...foxes are hunted in the UK still, I'd think farmers would take out any big ones they came across. If they get any bigger they'll take lambs, etc., even more easily.
Foxes already have a go at cats in some places. Bigger ones could really become a problem, especially in suburbia where they're mostly left in peace just now.

 

[Toddy]

Strange things happen in and around Thetford, it was the chupacabra for sure.

I thought they had that huge south American rodent thingie ?

 

[santaman2000]

......Large foxes though...foxes are hunted in the UK still, I'd think farmers would take out any big ones they came across. If they get any bigger they'll take lambs, etc., even more easily.
Foxes already have a go at cats in some places. Bigger ones could really become a problem, especially in suburbia where they're mostly left in peace just now.

I tend to agree with all those points. (As well as the ones I left out of the quote) In fact the larger foxes already mentioned in this thread by you and others (even apart from the Alsatian sized ones) seem to somewhat overlap the size of coyotes.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Kwé
When I was a guide for hunters and geologists, I noticed some often misgudged the size of things they saw. The lynx they saw in the bush they often told me it was much bigger than any lynx I'd ever see, or the caribou was taller than any man and so on, even in winter with snow on the ground and the tracks told me everything I needed to know about that animal.

A year or two back my English friend sent me a cutting from one of your UK papers. A photo showed a 'creature' on the side of the road and had been filmed by a camera in the car. It was black and was described as being the size of a big dog, but with a long tale like cougar. Panther on the loose I think the headlines were. But it was clear to me that the animal was nothing more than an ordinary black cat.

Probably many folk who spend much of their lives in towns and cities fail to judge the correct size of animals and birds they don't know well and estimate poorly the distance of things they can see. I guess its a skill you learn.

Maybe I'll come over one day and see if I can find one.

 

[santaman2000]

I thought they had that huge south American rodent thingie ?

No. Not a rodent. A mythical blood sucking predator https://news.nationalgeographic.com...lloween-science-monsters-chupacabras-picture/

 

[mr dazzler]

I've seen plenty of regular metro foxes, we had 4 of them regularly come into our garden on a night in Bournemouth. But this animal I saw was way bigger. Every time I've seen dogs wether accompanied or running wild, they always are panting or sniffing, making noise.The animal I saw was totally silent even when it was trotting away. Anyway who knows Imight see it again, I usually go up there at least once a week. Perhaps I might get a photo next time.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Probably many folk who spend much of their lives in towns and cities fail to judge the correct size of animals and birds they don't know well and estimate poorly the distance of things they can see. I guess its a skill you learn.

I think that a person tends to guess at the size of an animal by comparing it to familiar, known objects around it. So in town, a cat walking next to a parked car will look normally cat-sized. But met out in the forest, without a familiar yardstick next to it, might appear much bigger.

Anybody from the police force who has had to collect witness statements will also be able to tell us how unreliable a person's memory can be, even when recalling events that happened very recently.

And that's before we start talking about hunters or fishermen, with their tails of "the one that got away".

 

[Laurentius]

Kwé
When I was a guide for hunters and geologists, I noticed some often misgudged the size of things they saw. The lynx they saw in the bush they often told me it was much bigger than any lynx I'd ever see, or the caribou was taller than any man and so on, even in winter with snow on the ground and the tracks told me everything I needed to know about that animal.

A year or two back my English friend sent me a cutting from one of your UK papers. A photo showed a 'creature' on the side of the road and had been filmed by a camera in the car. It was black and was described as being the size of a big dog, but with a long tale like cougar. Panther on the loose I think the headlines were. But it was clear to me that the animal was nothing more than an ordinary black cat.

Probably many folk who spend much of their lives in towns and cities fail to judge the correct size of animals and birds they don't know well and estimate poorly the distance of things they can see. I guess its a skill you learn.

Maybe I'll come over one day and see if I can find one.

I can assure you that I did not underestimate the size of the huge bull mastiff that came romping out of a local woods which siezed my wrist in it's jaws. I have to say I was more scared of the owner than the dog, as the kind of people who let these things off the leash in woods where that is not allowed are not to be trusted if you insinuate that their pet is a dangerous animal, even after said beast has attacked you.

 

[mr dazzler]

Kwé
When I was a guide for hunters and geologists, I noticed some often misgudged the size of things they saw. The lynx they saw in the bush they often told me it was much bigger than any lynx I'd ever see, or the caribou was taller than any man and so on, even in winter with snow on the ground and the tracks told me everything I needed to know about that animal.

A year or two back my English friend sent me a cutting from one of your UK papers. A photo showed a 'creature' on the side of the road and had been filmed by a camera in the car. It was black and was described as being the size of a big dog, but with a long tale like cougar. Panther on the loose I think the headlines were. But it was clear to me that the animal was nothing more than an ordinary black cat.

Probably many folk who spend much of their lives in towns and cities fail to judge the correct size of animals and birds they don't know well and estimate poorly the distance of things they can see. I guess its a skill you learn.

Maybe I'll come over one day and see if I can find one.

Why the need to be patronising and dismissive? presumably you DONT live in a town or city? well bully for you if that's the case. We aren't all so fortunate!
"Its a skill you learn" So is developing your visual perception to see and observe on a non superficial level (I am a visual artist) I know what I saw, some people are sceptical, that's ok. Next time I see anything unusual I'll stay quiet about it.….

 

[C_Claycomb]

I think a deep breath might be in order.

If Joe has had experience with hunters, who one would expect would be pretty sharp with estimating range and size of animals, misjudge these things, there is no reason to let feelings get bent out of shape when he points out that it might have happened in this case (because it can and does happen). Compared to Joe, practically everyone living in the UK is town based. Looking at a map, I am not sure I would call his location "fortunate". For example, Thetford is about 35 miles from Cambridge and I am sure there are some nice camera shops around there, where-as the nearest photographic related shop to Joe looks to be about 9.5 hours away! Pros and cons!

I was going to mention the photos of big cats that are actually just house cats without a recognised frame of reference.

Over the last month or so I have been watching some videos on Youtube from Steve Isdahl Howtohunt. He has a lot of stories and is good at telling them. He lives in British Columbia and has a lot of Sasquatch related stories. Watching the videos and reading the comments is interesting in what it shows of how people respond to unusual experiences, and how other people then respond to hearing about them. Steve mentions how many people tell him about seeing Sasquatch, but have not told other folk because they don't want to be ridiculed. They see stuff, and keep quiet. Some sceptics are down right rude, but even when they are not, things can quickly deteriorate when what one group thinks of as healthy caution taking a stranger's story at face value and thorough examination of all possibilities, the other takes as a personal affront to their honesty and intelligence.

I hope you will consider posting any other unusual sightings. I may be a septic by nature, but I have learned a fair bit as a result of this thread, so thanks for posting it!!! It would be a boring, and unhealthy place if everyone agreed all the time.

Chris

 

[Woody girl]

Where I live there are regular sightings of big cats... ie puma size. Many are sceptical about their existence as nobody has ever caught one or found a dead body or bones. I have seen photos and am totaly familiar with cats, black or otherwise. I believe it is real.
The way you describe it's movement says fox/ wolf. We have no wolves so it has to be fox. Dogs have zig zag movements as they like to investigate every interesting smell that hits their noses. Mind you saying that feral dogs who have been wild for a good long while tend to revert to a more wolf like behaviour as per their ancestors. So there is a chance it could be a feral dog, as it would be wary of humans especially if it had been badly treated in the past.
I have worked with dogs for many years in the past in animal rescue centers so have observed this with rescued animals if they have been living wild for a long time.
I know you didn't have time but a photo would have given more clues. A fleeting glance can be misleading to our senses on occasion. .. not that I'm saying that's what happened. It would be great to go back and bait and stake out. See what comes along and take a snap, or try to find some tracks and see if they zig zag or not and take a plaster cast. Sounds like a fun adventure. I love mysteries. I'd just have to go back and find out.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I am quite certain that there are big cats roaming the British countryside, I remember seeing photos in an old airgun magazine of footprints in the snow, clearly a cat, but big. However, I am equally certain that a lot of sightings are of dogs or domestic cats. So, when someone says they have seen a big cat, is one to believe them straight away, or is one to go through the range of other possibilities (even probabilities) first? If one believed every sighting, the place would have to be thick with black panthers (or bigfoots for that matter).

 

[Woody girl]

My son's godfather is 6 foot 7 inches and has size 15 boots. He is called yeti so we do have big foot here in the UK

 

[mr dazzler]

I think a deep breath might be in order.

If Joe has had experience with hunters, who one would expect would be pretty sharp with estimating range and size of animals, misjudge these things, there is no reason to let feelings get bent out of shape when he points out that it might have happened in this case (because it can and does happen). Compared to Joe, practically everyone living in the UK is town based. Looking at a map, I am not sure I would call his location "fortunate". For example, Thetford is about 35 miles from Cambridge and I am sure there are some nice camera shops around there, where-as the nearest photographic related shop to Joe looks to be about 9.5 hours away! Pros and cons!

I was going to mention the photos of big cats that are actually just house cats without a recognised frame of reference.

Over the last month or so I have been watching some videos on Youtube from Steve Isdahl Howtohunt. He has a lot of stories and is good at telling them. He lives in British Columbia and has a lot of Sasquatch related stories. Watching the videos and reading the comments is interesting in what it shows of how people respond to unusual experiences, and how other people then respond to hearing about them. Steve mentions how many people tell him about seeing Sasquatch, but have not told other folk because they don't want to be ridiculed. They see stuff, and keep quiet. Some sceptics are down right rude, but even when they are not, things can quickly deteriorate when what one group thinks of as healthy caution taking a stranger's story at face value and thorough examination of all possibilities, the other takes as a personal affront to their honesty and intelligence.

I hope you will consider posting any other unusual sightings. I may be a septic by nature, but I have learned a fair bit as a result of this thread, so thanks for posting it!!! It would be a boring, and unhealthy place if everyone agreed all the time.

Chris

Thanks for a timely and well balanced post.
Mind you, the principle Joe mentioned (over estimating) can work the other way. While I, (a townie from LONDON no less back then), was in Canada in 1980, fishing for bass early one morning, I hear splish splash sounds coming from the shallow reeds of the inlet stream of the lake. I thought nothing of it....someones dog must be out roaming about, and just concentrated on my plastic frog. The bass were absolutely fantastic superb fish and they go frenetic for those frogs. Any way I was drifting round the lake margins in my canoe, plopping and reeling, and landing several fine eating fish, when I looked up just as I was about to make a fresh cast, and theres a black bear on a massive boulder, watching little old me. Wondering maybe who was snaffling HIS fish....My hosts had visited that same location every year since the 50's and never seen one bear. This one was just 20 feet from their cabin. We saw 3 more that fortnight, those bears LOVE their berries!

 

[Woody girl]

The reason I know there are big cats round here is because I have come face to face wit a black puma. You do not forget those eyes glaring at you. Or the fact that you turn to jelly and almost wet yourself. I know the meaning of petrified! All ended well and it's too long a story for here but they are definitely here on the moor.
I still think you caught a glimpse of a huge fox. As hunting fox has been banned they are living longer and with less stress they are flourishing in certain areas. As with humans you get the odd anomaly (see my previous post) so I still think you saw a large fox with different colouring to the norm. Perfectly possible.

 

[CLEM]

That was a dog. I saw a very large Fox early one morning about 15 years back as I turned up in to the road to my gaf near the farm, gone now sadly soon to have 560 houses built on its land but anyway this was a very large Fox. Largest I’ve seen but nowhere near the size of a German Shepard, as a breed the GSD is in the region of 75 to nigh on a 100 pounds. That’s a big dog especially at the upper end, a MAHOOSIVE Fox is heading south of 30 pounds. There really slight creatures ole Raynard.