I don't think we are in disagreement and I'd love to develop the discussion, but TeeDee would not be happy! (Although it's his fault for asking interesting and provocative questions.)
Degree
- Thread starter TeeDee
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No, it is the duty of the scholar to ask interesting and provocative questions.
(And the small child, of course)
(And the small child, of course)
Actually, asking interesting and provocative questions is one of the very best teaching tools
My interests very rapidly veered towards the research side, I did not actually complete a full masters before switching to my PhD having completed a post grad cert in special education and then switched over, it seemed the natural thing to do as I was questioning many of the recieved ideas that were being taught. My contributions since have been on the ethics of research amongst other things, and I am part of a group that believes in a participatory model which is inclusive of people who do not have the usual qualifications being involved in drawing up research protocols. Wouldn't work in technical fields perhaps, but it does when you are in the educational/humanities field. Anyway you do not need a degree to design research necessarily but an understanding of statistics certainly helps, and that is something I had learned earlier on and utilised in social research for the local authority and voluntary organisations.
BEng minerals engineering then MSc (Eng) in industrial materials engineering.
No idea of cost. No fees then and I got supported by parents then on the sole with benefits for master's. Basic JSA and the usual benefits plus transport and some extras for expenses.
Degrees aren't that relevant after 20 years I reckon you learn more after your degree in a lot of ways. A degree shows a standard which you develop your career on. If you're lucky or driven or simply picked right. I cannot say I use either degree but I cannot say that the development I got through university isn't being used daily. University isn't about pure academic substance imho.
I'd have turned around to my 18 year old self and said step off the grammar school to university treadmill. The school didn't help people getting below what they're capable of. Clearing wasn't mentioned. So I took the first course that gave me a call after my grades weren't good enough at a level. I could have done the degree I wanted at another university. One poly that gave me an unconditional place became a university over summer and had better employment prospects for my course I wanted to do. A year out working and testing resitting would have been very positive for me. Chances are the next year I'd get in with good grades having got over my scare. Probably with a more suitable course option.
No idea of cost. No fees then and I got supported by parents then on the sole with benefits for master's. Basic JSA and the usual benefits plus transport and some extras for expenses.
Degrees aren't that relevant after 20 years I reckon you learn more after your degree in a lot of ways. A degree shows a standard which you develop your career on. If you're lucky or driven or simply picked right. I cannot say I use either degree but I cannot say that the development I got through university isn't being used daily. University isn't about pure academic substance imho.
I'd have turned around to my 18 year old self and said step off the grammar school to university treadmill. The school didn't help people getting below what they're capable of. Clearing wasn't mentioned. So I took the first course that gave me a call after my grades weren't good enough at a level. I could have done the degree I wanted at another university. One poly that gave me an unconditional place became a university over summer and had better employment prospects for my course I wanted to do. A year out working and testing resitting would have been very positive for me. Chances are the next year I'd get in with good grades having got over my scare. Probably with a more suitable course option.
A ) What is your Degree in? - Environment Management
B ) Did you have to pay for your Degree? If so how much do you think your Degree and living costs accumulated to be at the end of the study - ie overall cost of Degree + Living Costs for 3 years.
- living costs only (£15k estimated total over the there years - it was up north, i lived very cheaply (£35/per week rent), and it was in the late '90's)
C ) Do you actually use your Degree in a relevant way to your current Job ? ( If you have one )
- i work in environmental management - so my degree is about as relevant as it could be. I wouldn't have been able to start my career without its tick in the box. That said, educationally wise I have used NONE of the learning from my degree - everything i need i learned once working.
D ) If you had your time again - would you have you advise yourself to do the same subject? or maybe forgo the Degree path entirely?
- i would do the same again at the drop of a hat. It opened the door to my career, but crucially was an absolutely amazing 3 years.
B ) Did you have to pay for your Degree? If so how much do you think your Degree and living costs accumulated to be at the end of the study - ie overall cost of Degree + Living Costs for 3 years.
- living costs only (£15k estimated total over the there years - it was up north, i lived very cheaply (£35/per week rent), and it was in the late '90's)
C ) Do you actually use your Degree in a relevant way to your current Job ? ( If you have one )
- i work in environmental management - so my degree is about as relevant as it could be. I wouldn't have been able to start my career without its tick in the box. That said, educationally wise I have used NONE of the learning from my degree - everything i need i learned once working.
D ) If you had your time again - would you have you advise yourself to do the same subject? or maybe forgo the Degree path entirely?
- i would do the same again at the drop of a hat. It opened the door to my career, but crucially was an absolutely amazing 3 years.
@oldtimer - apologies if this is yet another of my threads that raises your internal temperature somewhat. That wasn't my intention.
I agree that I do think the questions are relating education to work-place , I feel this is somewhat the way of the world albeit I'm not sure if that is right or wrong. I'm happy to hear your thoughts upon it however.
I myself have no degree so I feel somewhat impartial and am merely seeking some actual feedback relating to education, choices and outcomes.
Please don't let the original format i set up corral you - run free !!
Seriously , I'm as interested as the next person , so please crack on.
I do struggle with the whole " Education = Work Success (?) / Career " thing
I think that's true for all of us; I certainly have more desire to learn now. My problem is, at my age, stuff falls out of one ear as fast as it goes in the other; I'm convinced I've forgotten more than I know!
I helped a friend out regarding a potential over turn of a goods train carrying liquids with my basic knowledge.Actually, asking interesting and provocative questions is one of the very best teaching tools
She was MEng,CEng & MIMechE university qualified & at the end of her tether..come home crying & running a computer mock up for weeks of said train.
I Just said put more baffles in it & weld extra brackets to secure it..she said in the nicest possible way, it’s not that easy & gave me a lecture on the laws of gravity & inertia.
After a few more days of error, she tried my approach, guess what, it worked?
wonder how much I’d of got for that?
I genuinely believe that decent apprenticeships are every bit, if not more so, as valid as a University education.
The problem comes from evaluating them so that there is consistency enough that the individual is employable elsewhere on an even footing with others.
I didn't quote it but I have three years of an undergraduate BA too.....Scotland does four year degrees, so it's not complete..... but I do wish I had used those studies for something else. I think I would have liked more science tbh, and more hands on environmental bio chemistry.
Some of those 'points' I paid for through the OU while my children were young.
I didn't transfer them when I did go to University because I wanted the whole BSc hons degree.
There's perhaps my point; I think that we need to be more adaptable, and have degree qualifications more accessible, and still be even handedly evaluated.
Not an easy ask that though, is it ?
The problem comes from evaluating them so that there is consistency enough that the individual is employable elsewhere on an even footing with others.
I didn't quote it but I have three years of an undergraduate BA too.....Scotland does four year degrees, so it's not complete..... but I do wish I had used those studies for something else. I think I would have liked more science tbh, and more hands on environmental bio chemistry.
Some of those 'points' I paid for through the OU while my children were young.
I didn't transfer them when I did go to University because I wanted the whole BSc hons degree.
There's perhaps my point; I think that we need to be more adaptable, and have degree qualifications more accessible, and still be even handedly evaluated.
Not an easy ask that though, is it ?
I really like this train of thought.
It seems lots of people if they 'miss out' for whatever reasons to study for a degree straight after the immediate ending of standardised schooling only ( if at all ) return to a degree path via the O.U at a far, far later point of life ( late 30's early 40's ).
At that point returning to education can be a bit daunting i'd imagine.
If the Open University could tap into those youngsters that are leaving school but not going into higher education and somehow create an introductory step to what the O.U is , what it can provide , how its structured , time frame etc to make the concept of the O.U less distant and frankly alien I think that would be a great way to extend a sort of introductory handshake of sorts. Sort of saying " Here we are , maybe its not the right time now but you could start with Course X whenever you want."
I'm sure there are enough basic free MOOC course the O.U could offer school leavers to show them how the homestudy & teaching is based.
@henchy3rd
Good engineering balances the theoretical with the practical. I have seen theoretical type people make a real hash of design and of analysis. I have also seen the hands-on folk make some suggestions that would have been disastrous if carried out.
Personally I lean towards the practical and intuitive rather than relying on computation, so my personal favourite "fail" story involves a member of a Stress Analysis team with a PhD. First job in industry after finishing their PhD, pretty dismissive of anyone outside of their heavily academic team. Calculated that our motor would overheat. Had been told that there was a theoretical clearance between unground parts of 0.25mm and modelled it as an infinite thermal resistance. Argued that compared to conduction in metal it was as good as infinite. Really didn't like the suggestion we could test that with a 100 degC hot plate and their finger, see how warm it was at 0.25mm separation. Real problem though was that the real fit wasn't a perfect clearance, it had lots of contact points from surface roughness. If memory serves their calculation was about 60% hotter than reality when we tested.
Good engineering balances the theoretical with the practical. I have seen theoretical type people make a real hash of design and of analysis. I have also seen the hands-on folk make some suggestions that would have been disastrous if carried out.
Personally I lean towards the practical and intuitive rather than relying on computation, so my personal favourite "fail" story involves a member of a Stress Analysis team with a PhD. First job in industry after finishing their PhD, pretty dismissive of anyone outside of their heavily academic team. Calculated that our motor would overheat. Had been told that there was a theoretical clearance between unground parts of 0.25mm and modelled it as an infinite thermal resistance. Argued that compared to conduction in metal it was as good as infinite. Really didn't like the suggestion we could test that with a 100 degC hot plate and their finger, see how warm it was at 0.25mm separation. Real problem though was that the real fit wasn't a perfect clearance, it had lots of contact points from surface roughness. If memory serves their calculation was about 60% hotter than reality when we tested.
There's an interesting PhD program at a JTC I think it's called between Manchester and Lancaster universities on 1D materials. Something like 13 fully funded 4 year PhDs with 6 months of training courses before the start.
What's particularly interesting to me is how among the 21 year old fresh graduates starting there's a few older ones. Including one
It's a fully funded 4 years with 6 months of training courses before the PhD actually starts. Also funded. It's part of a JTC I think it's called. It's where two or more universities combine to form a regional, research centre of excellence. This case Manchester and Lancaster. Both very highly ranked research universities.
Right now I'm planning on reading up on various aspects of my masters. Whether it leads to something or not I'm feel I need to start learning something technical again. I'm nearly 50 and I think I need more mental challenges. I also keenly aware I've never used what potential I might have had when young. Education was wasted on my younger self. Even doing my masters at about 22 or 23 I wasn't mature enough. I always had the desire to learn but I didn't like to prove my what I'd learnt. It's not the work but the evidence. Not laziness just writing up the evidence takes away from learning. Now I'm more able to see value in evidence. It's maturity I never had when the opportunity for university education was there.
What was your university course Stew? If you already answered that I apologise
What's particularly interesting to me is how among the 21 year old fresh graduates starting there's a few older ones. Including one
I've hoarded my notes from both degrees because I keep alive the dreams I'll read them again ready for going into a career in the field one day. I never do. I bought a few books for my undergraduate and masters too. Not enough though as I used library books a lot. Now I wish I'd bought a couple of books recommended for my master's course as I am wondering about doing a PhD. There's a very interesting PhD programme I'm interested in and I know I could do it. The other interesting thing is that the programme has the usual 21 year old graduates but there's a few in their promotion media about mature PhD students. One guy was actually late 50s or 60 or so when he started!! A career in control engineering and he decided to do a PhD in 1D materials.
It's a fully funded 4 years with 6 months of training courses before the PhD actually starts. Also funded. It's part of a JTC I think it's called. It's where two or more universities combine to form a regional, research centre of excellence. This case Manchester and Lancaster. Both very highly ranked research universities.
Right now I'm planning on reading up on various aspects of my masters. Whether it leads to something or not I'm feel I need to start learning something technical again. I'm nearly 50 and I think I need more mental challenges. I also keenly aware I've never used what potential I might have had when young. Education was wasted on my younger self. Even doing my masters at about 22 or 23 I wasn't mature enough. I always had the desire to learn but I didn't like to prove my what I'd learnt. It's not the work but the evidence. Not laziness just writing up the evidence takes away from learning. Now I'm more able to see value in evidence. It's maturity I never had when the opportunity for university education was there.
What was your university course Stew? If you already answered that I apologise
Not sure what you mean by that Tengu.
Someone who is willing to learn. And contribute to the subject.
I left school with no qualifications.
One of my Tutors left school with no qualifications; she was told she would get nowhere.
She now has a Phd.
Someone who is willing to learn. And contribute to the subject.
I left school with no qualifications.
One of my Tutors left school with no qualifications; she was told she would get nowhere.
She now has a Phd.
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