Dead wood

Does using dead wood bother me

  • Yes it does

    Votes: 11 11.3%
  • No it does not

    Votes: 57 58.8%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 16 16.5%
  • I was not aware of this

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • Man takes what man needs

    Votes: 9 9.3%

  • Total voters
    97

JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
The dead wood in the woods is a habitat for many species of insects and many birds depend on it for food, but we as bushcrafters use this wood as a source of fuel for our fires. Does this bother you in any way.............Jon
More info here http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/woodpeckerdeadwood/other_wildlife.asp
I feel I need to add that this comes from an arguement I was having with another member of the volunteer group I am in, who does not think that bushcrafters are all that good as far as nature goes.
 

torjusg

Native
Aug 10, 2005
1,246
21
42
Telemark, Norway
livingprimitively.com
First of all, I don't cut ancient dead pines. That is sacrilegious! And with the population density where I come from is so low that I don't have any real impact even if I burn a lot of dry wood. And larvae normally bore in bigger trees than I use for firewood.

There is more dead wood standing in the forests now then it has been for centuries. No problem I think. It is the commercial logging that is the big, bad wolf.

Torjus Gaaren
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
51
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
I think the key word here is moderation :)


And as bushcrafters we should be remembering to scatter seeds and plant saplings from shooters so that as we take so we also give back. :)

Bam. :D
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
It maters imensly but as Bam has said in moderation and more importantly gather your wood over a vast area instead of one part of the wood.

The following extract is taken from the BTCV woodland book.

Rotting wood, both on and off the tree, is a very important habitat for invertebrates. The information below refers to fallen deadwood.

Clearing up and removing or burning rotting timber is an act of vandalism, which in a single act can destroy an important invertebrate habitat. The general rule is that fallen, rotting wood should be left where it is. Large fallen trunks and branches are particularly valuable, and should never be rolled over, chopped up or otherwise disturbed. This can easily happen, either by misguided 'tidying up', or as thoughtless destruction by children for example.

Large dead or dying branches on trees should not be removed unless they are a danger to the public.

Old, rotting wood should always be left where it is, unless you have to move it, for example, to clear a path. In that case, move it carefully the smallest distance, and leave it under similar conditions of light and shade, the same way up, and with the same orientation.

Newly cut wood
Thinning, coppicing or clearance work in woodlands produces a large volume of cut material. For commercial operations, much of this material will be removed from the wood. Where management is mainly for conservation or amenity, commercial use of the cut material may not be feasible. In this case, larger cut material is best left where it falls. Sned off the smaller side and top branches.

Scattered, newly cut coppice poles and thinnings look untidy, and the temptation is to stack them in a neat pile. This should only be done if the wood is going to be removed and reused. Cut poles, branches and trunks are of much greater value to invertebrates if scattered through the wood, rather than piled up, although piles do have some value. Scattered wood not only gives more useful habitat per volume of wood, but it is also less likely to be disturbed in the future, as it will not be attractive to vandals or firewood gatherers. A few piles of cut wood at the edge of a sunny ride or glade is acceptable. If the stacks are likely to get disturbed, either by deliberate or thoughtless action, some old stock netting or similar covering the stack and buried around the base should prove a deterrent. Log habitat piles should be no bigger than about 1m (3') high by 2-3m (6-10') long.

Where stacked wood is going to be removed, it's best stacked somewhere where it will not attract invertebrates or other animals, or the habitat will be destroyed when the stack is taken apart and moved. Preferably stack outside the wood, in a barn or open-sided shelter, or partly cover the stack with plastic to reduce the entry of invertebrates.

Brushwood
The smaller branches and twiggy growth produced from felling and clearing takes up a lot of space. The option of burning versus other methods is discussed on page 86. Cut material is useful for dead hedging (see coppicing) access barriers, or it can be bundled or chipped for uses outside the wood (see felling, clearing and extraction). 'Habitat piles' of twiggy material, left in shady conditions in the wood, are of little value for wildlife. Such material further reduces light reaching the woodland floor, so damaging the woodland flora, and is a nuisance for access and management. Piles of brash left in open spaces can be a quick way of producing a scrub or woodland edge type habitat, with bramble and other plants rapidly disguising the brash and providing a habitat for birds, small mammals and other creatures.

This can normally only 'use up' a small proportion of the total brushwood produced. For invertebrates, brushwood is of greater value if bundled tightly, rather than in a loose pile, as well as taking up less space. The close packing provides relatively constant moist conditions in the centre of the bundles. Tie the material as for fascines (see coppicing), and stack the bundles in dappled shade.

Creating deadwood habitats
In addition to the procedures above for cut material, other measures can be taken to increase the amount of deadwood in a woodland.

In commercial woodlands, thinning operations favour the straightest and healthiest trees, and remove those that are misshapen or damaged. In non-commercial woodlands, it's possible instead to keep trees which have splits, sap runs, fungal growth or other signs which indicate premature rotting. Jagged stumps, splits and holes in the trunks of trees are potentially very useful, and should not be treated or tidied up. One can even go so far as to damage an otherwise healthy tree, although this is best done without publicity!

Newly felled timber can also be brought in from elsewhere, into an area of new woodland. Trunks of trees or large branches from thinning operations, storm damage or other sources can be transported to the wood, and placed on the ground in dappled shade where they are unlikely to be disturbed. Trunks can also be set upright, to provide standing deadwood habitat. This should only be done if you have the skills and equipment to handle and position the timber. Choose a location where the dead tree will not be a danger to the public in following years as it rots. Set it upright in a deep hole, secured by wire guys as necessary.
 

redflex

Need to contact Admin...
Dead wood should be removed only if it is part of an activte managemant plan.


If you use dead wood make sure you leave it behind after you finished with it where possible that way you are not taking just borrowing it for a short time.

By the way there is more forest and woodland in the UK than in the last 200 years
most has been result of commercial forestry that includes parts some of the wonderful semi-ancient woodlands of oak etc
 

spoony

Need to contact Admin...
Oct 6, 2005
1,402
12
55
tyne and wear
www.bike2hike.co.uk
for gods sake its not like we burn an entire forest, this reminds me of the advert with the guy who saves all the animals then blows his nose on a hanky and feels bad because he killed some germs :rolleyes:
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
I think that individually, we're OK to take and burn just enough to keep us fed and warmed.
There might be a problem however at a big meet or at a place which regularly caters for our firecraft practices.
Whilst on holiday in Australia recently, barbeque areas in parkland have bins that are stocked from local wood yards (offcuts and such) so that picnic-ers had no need to raid the forrested areas for fallen wood.

Perhaps we should either take along a supply of wood to meet-up's or arrange a supply from known sustainable areas.

Ogri the trog
 

stovie

Need to contact Admin...
Oct 12, 2005
1,658
20
60
Balcombes Copse
Nature supplies far more Deadwood (good programme, that) than I can ever hope to use.

Keep safe. Keep what you need. keep warm :morpheus:

ps. Whats with the "Wilderness Clan" avatars????? It's not a "splinter" group, is it :lmao:
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
Jon Pickett said:
dwood/other_wildlife.asp[/url]
I feel I need to add that this comes from an arguement I was having with another member of the volunteer group I am in, who does not think that bushcrafters are all that good as far as nature goes.

Using a car to get out in the woods is worse for the environment than making a fire with thought and precaution.
Being a mountainbiker I am very often confronted with a holier-than-you attitude of what I call "Autofahrer zu Fuß" (=motorist on foot). Those f.....s who drive happily 100km with the car to walk a couple of kilometer on foot through the wood. Then blaming me for destroying nature.
Bunch of Vibram-fascists.
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
66
Greensand Ridge
oetzi said:
Using a car to get out in the woods is worse for the environment than making a fire with thought and precaution.
Being a mountainbiker I am very often confronted with a holier-than-you attitude of what I call "Autofahrer zu Fuß" (=motorist on foot). Those f.....s who drive happily 100km with the car to walk a couple of kilometer on foot through the wood. Then blaming me for destroying nature.
Bunch of Vibram-fascists.


Here we are back to "moderation" again: A mountainbiker of bushcraft sensibilities is one thing but what of that same wooldland route when it attracts the earth gripping/stripping tyres of 50 less considerate bike heads?

Nothing against bike users as I cycle daily into London although the percentage of people who do likewise and jump red lights is about the same as the number of pre-owned BMW's you find in bus lanes.

Cheers

K
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
51
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Ogri the trog said:
I think that individually, we're OK to take and burn just enough to keep us fed and warmed.
There might be a problem however at a big meet or at a place which regularly caters for our firecraft practices.
Whilst on holiday in Australia recently, barbeque areas in parkland have bins that are stocked from local wood yards (offcuts and such) so that picnic-ers had no need to raid the forrested areas for fallen wood.

Perhaps we should either take along a supply of wood to meet-up's or arrange a supply from known sustainable areas.

Ogri the trog

You're not wrong Ogri, I use a campsite in Sussex with some mates of mine and we always have to bring our own wood with us. The other campers have quite literally picked the place clean, there's hardly a stick or twig anywhere and certainly not any fuel sized logs to be had.
Luckily in my line of work I'm seldom short of a bit of wood for burning and it most often comes out of gardens where it was never going to be allowed by the owners to rot on the ground. So in a way I'm helping the campsite trees by not touching their wood.
It does mean my mph goes up in the 4x4 though as I've got an extra tonne or so to lug....so not as friendly that way...life's a beach on some things init! :D

Bam. :)
 

Topcat02

Settler
Aug 9, 2005
608
2
57
Dymock, Gloucestershire
Interesting discussion. It presupposes that we light fires every time we go out.
If we do light a fire, but dont use wood, then we probably use petrol/gas/chemical means of lighting a fire for hot drinks, etc.

Environmentally is this any better than using some dead wood? If you dont return to that particular area and light a fire, then you are allowing the area to recover and thus minimising your impact.

Common sense, and balance are definately in order.

:D

Right, I'm off to plant a twig. :)
 

ilovemybed

Settler
Jul 18, 2005
564
6
44
Prague
I can't see it's a problem. Everything that happens in nature affects something else. If we don't burn it, the other beasties will get to do what they want with it. If they get a share and we get a share, surely that's fine? We are, after all, living creatures! As the common theme seems to be going - only take what you need, and do your best to minimise the impact.

After all, If you're not outside heating yourself burning wood then you're in your house heated by electricity created from burning oil, gas or coal. I know not many other animals or plants are competing for those resources directly but, well, the power stations were built on what was their homes, and we're digging up loads of habitats looking for more not to mention what's happening from the waste generated. We can't just stop any of it, we should just use discretion.
 

gregorach

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 15, 2005
3,723
29
51
Edinburgh
It's a thorny question to be sure...

I suspect that in the UK, the main problem with this type of habitat is islandisation. It's no use having the dead wood if you don't have enough nearby resevoirs of the species that colonise it, so you really need large, contiguous areas of fully mature woodland to sustain biodiversity. I suspect that many of the native species that specialise in this habitat are already pratically (if not totally) extinct, at least in most areas of the country.

I also suspect that the really important habitat which is most under threat is standing, dead, mature trees. No bushcrafter is ever going to cut down a dead mature oak in the course of bushcraft activities - we simply don't pack that sort of equipment, nor would we have any use for such a thing. How significant that bundle of sticks for your fire really is, I'm not at all sure.

However, in areas which are subject to severe pressure (long-term "travellers" camps spring to mind) I have seen woods cleared to such an extent that you can't find a single decent stick of firewood even after the site's been abandoned for several years.

So, as with most of these things, I guess the correct answer is "it really depends on a lot of other factors". ;) :)
 

JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
Thanks for all the comments............I do use dead wood for fires and will continue to do so, but I do think that if a wood is stripped of deadwood the wood will become dead as far as wildlife is concerned as so much of the wildlife depends on it. I am amazed though that many of you are not bothered by this. I know that in a large woodland or forest we will have little impact, but many of the woods around me are quite small. Perhaps lots of you live near big woods and are not bothered, because of the little impact...................Jon
 

Salix

Nomad
Jan 13, 2006
370
1
55
Bolton
As a manager of several woodlands in the north west area, and a conservation biologist i have to say that taking a minimal amount of dead wood from the woodland is not a bad thing, yes the BTCV handbook says never, but this field of study is constantly evolving, and yes the percentage of dead wood habitat compared to living wood is small, but lets put it into perspective, all of the countrysied in the UK is managed land, if we really wanted to promote biodiversity to such an extent, the management of woodlands would be zero, allowing the land to revert to what is called its climax - thick, choking, woodland. The British Isles has been actively managed for 500,000 years, from paleolithic times to the present, and as rightly stated, has never been as wooded for at least 200 years. If your in a woodland, look around you, if dead wood is plentyful, then use some, i do, i would be more worried about actual camp craft. If the woodland is young, with very little dead or dying wood, then leave it.
Yes dead wood is important, drastically so, but we have been using the woods for millenia for all sorts of reasons, we're lucky we live in an informed time and can make informed decisions.

And the BTCV handbook isn't the gospel!
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
no one said the BTCV hand books was the gospel and i never said that you should never remove dead wood. What i did say though is that dead wood is critical and should only be taken in moderation, the same as any other resource available to bushcraft.

Jon and i both posted links to show people that there is an issue with removing to much dead wood and as Bam has said and many of us have experienced there are many woods with out any dead wood in it thanks to campers and the like.
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,326
1
2,041
54
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
As said before, if it’s in moderation then I’ve no problem using dead wood. I’ll not take it if there’s little there or it’s obvious that people have been taking a lot. If there’s plenty though I’ll take what I need.

Going back to the original question. I think that as long as bushcrafters are thoughtful and informed people they’re a benefit to nature, the main reason is that they would be inclined to go out anyway, but now they are starting to understand how to lessen any damage as well as promote good things. I know bushcrafters that remove wire, litter etc whenever they have the opportunity, they do this because they’ve got a higher awareness of nature.

So, my opinion is that taking wood is fine as long as there’s plenty and there’s respect for the area with regard to clearing up etc

We’re all learning and the more we learn the better we’ll be at nurturing the world around us, few of us make the mistakes we made years ago…..
 

Kane

Forager
Aug 22, 2005
167
1
UK
Interesting split there between campers and bushcrafters :)

I'm not an active bushcrafter but after following the forums here and elswhere I was under the impression that the vast majority of camping areas didn't allow open fires - or do you think the number of people wanting to get off the beaten track so to speak is on the increase?

Kane
 

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