Cyclists, bikers and cars!

[decorum]

Exactly. Joggers, walkers, mobility scooters, segways( great fun) all the way up to HGVs.
Financial implications to being a prat might rein in some of the idiots of all shades who use the roads?

So everyone would need a licence to cross the road? After all you are using the road and, in doing so, you could cause an accident. From what age would you become culpable?

How would it be checked? Perhaps it'd solve the unemployment issue in one fell swoop :yikes: . Unfortunately being banned from driving / riding doesn't prevent people from getting into / onto their conveyance(s) ~ and there's plenty of folk driving / riding without a licence / insurance / MOT too ...

On another note:-
Will rough close meets ever be resurrected?

Quite possibly. It might still be a while though as I've been (and continue to be) quite ill .

 

[wattsy]

I just assume every other road user is a moron and proceed accordingly

 

[mountainm]

Just on a related note - a recent study in america showed that the more expensive your car, the more inconsiderately you are likely to drive.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/the-rich-drive-differently-a-study-suggests/?_r=3

 

[dwardo]

I just assume every other road user is a moron and proceed accordingly

Good attitude to have. My uncle when teaching me to ride said just imagine they are all trying to kill you.

 

[Minotaur]

To return to the point of the topic - my view on staying safe: be predictable. For cyclists that means you are *always* a vehicle, not just when it suits you.

Stay off the pavement

Stop at red lights

Be very very visible.

Robbi, I'll accept that apology any time you care to make it.

Completely agree with everything however 'Stay off the pavement' what about cycle paths? Had an accident a few weeks ago, slammed in the side of a lorry who just turned left across a cycle path. 'I did not see you' was the response. I had passed him as he was stuck at traffic lights so he was not looking. I pay a lot of attention to anyone on my left side.

Here's my manifesto:-
1. Compulsory insurance for all road users.

A point to take on board I am insured and have free legal cover so hit me and expect to go to court.

I recently did a London to Paris cycle ride riding in France was amazing. Lots of undertaking, no need for dominant road position(that is what a cyclist is doing in the middle of the road it is basically look at me so you do not hit me), and most importantly overtaking by cars and lorries no hanging back revving their engine for reasons no one knows.

absolutely typical of modern cyclists....i ride by the rules and everyone else be damned.....i don't care how long the queue is behind me, i don't care if you can't get past, in fact i don't care about anyother road user...i ride by the rules ! But only when it suits....i would bet that you like every other cyclist undertakes, crosses red lights and generally ride without concideration to ANYONE else.

no wonder you lot are universally hated !

That is the problem in the UK there is a lot of hate on the road however you have raised an interesting point there is a modern style of cycling which has evolved mainly in London which is basically what you are saying. It comes from a simple point of view my journey is the most important so I will do everything necessary to survive it. I am not sure if I agree with it however I understand it. Minor point everyone is allowed to undertake if it is safe to do so and if drivers follow the highway code and are 18 inches off the side of the road it is almost always safe to do so for a cyclist. Is it wise, the best course of action maybe not however it is not illegal.

One of the things that is really interesting in this discussion is the speeds quoted which I think is one of the big problems with pedestrians I am not a super fit cyclist and my start speed is 15mph, I normally do something between 16mph and 20mph, however I can do anything up to 30mph and I am slow-ish. My stopping distances are what is quoted in the highway code I am not a modern car that stops dead so get in front of me and you will act as my break! This is one of the problems with how to deal with cyclists there are two campaigns because of the fact that a bike with someone who can ride on it is not moving along at under 15 mph so planning for one group does not work for the other.

So I ride by the rules, and I get a constant stream of shouted abuse, horns blowing, and occasional spittle and physical threats. Usually accompanied by "I never see any other cyclists riding that far out".

Try riding on cycle paths so much fun. 'You should be on the road!' That was from the Grand dad with his 6 year old grand child as he stepped them both into the cycle path in front of me. I basically emergency stopped from 20mph so as not to hit them. Then followed a wonderful arguement with me pointing down to the marked cycle path.

Out of curiosity - how many people here reread the highway code every couple of years?

I do however in honest I am going for my Motorbike test so not sure if I would normally. I do have the solution to the problem between drivers and cyclists. The government should give us all cameras and a percentage of the fines. I could double my income riding to and from work from BMW/Audi drivers alone.

Good attitude to have. My uncle when teaching me to ride said just imagine they are all trying to kill you.

My CBT instructor said the same thing.

 

[slowworm]

Minor point everyone is allowed to undertake if it is safe to do so and if drivers follow the highway code and are 18 inches off the side of the road it is almost always safe to do so for a cyclist. Is it wise, the best course of action maybe not however it is not illegal.

I wouldn't say an 18 inch gap was safe to pass in, as a cyclist I wouldn't be happy with a car passing me and only leaving 18 inches for me to cycle in and as a car driver I would never get that close. Cars are very likely to reduce that gap without warning, for example to avoid a pot-hole.

 

[Andy BB]

Try riding on cycle paths so much fun. 'You should be on the road!' That was from the Grand dad with his 6 year old grand child as he stepped them both into the cycle path in front of me. I basically emergency stopped from 20mph so as not to hit them. Then followed a wonderful arguement with me pointing down to the marked cycle path....

Now thats an interesting one! A cyclist complaining about pedestrians having the nerve to be in his way on a path specifically designated for cyclists - a bit like roads and motor-vehicles, come to think of it )

And an interesting legal one, too. I seem to remember that, in the Netherlands, cyclists have an absolute right of way over motor-vehicles, regardless of how stupidly they were riding. If one pops out from a side road immediately in front of you, its the car-driver's fault, for example. However, I think that doesn't apply to pedestrians, so if a bike hits a pedestrian, it is similarly always the cyclists' fault.

Anyway, I'm guessing that, in the case of Grandad etc, the cyclist is in the wrong - riding without due care and attention to surrounding hazards

 

[RonW]

I think it actually is plain and simple; people are stupid, singleminded and egotistical creatures, when it comes to traffic.
The road is theirs and everyone else is in the way, only they know how to operate whatever mode of transportation they are using properly and everyone else is a complete *insert whatever swearword you might deem fit* when using said mode of transportation. And if they are reminded of the fact that none of the above is actually true, they blatantly deny that and again blame it on someone else. Compassion or consideration is very often absent in traffic. I can speak as a pedestrian, cyclist, biker, tractor-, car- and vandriver and policeofficer.
No idea why people behave like that. Somehow I think that a false sense of safety and high stresslevels, mixed with the previously mentioned characteristics make a deadly cocktail.

 

[xylaria]

I am with RonW. Some people are arogant stupid and rude no matter what they are choose as their mode of transport. Dog walkers that let thier dog poop on the cycle path [s*** shower for riders], cyclist that cycle three a breast on the main road, the horse rider that rides on a pavement and gets manure on peoples doorstep [seriously at least it puts the bad dog walkers to shame], car drivers that are blind/mental/arrogant, and the agricultural drivers that race on sunday mornings [which is probably why the horse is on the pavement]. These are just annoyances until they kill someone. We should have more car free routes, and laws for inconsiderate road use.

 

[ebt.]

Agreed entirely about the spread of the idiot. Its not rocket science, use a little consideration and we can all achieve our journeys with the minimum of delay (shocker, a few mins here and there wont kill anyone).

....or we could all act like we're the most important person around and force other mere peasants to avert their gaze. Of course if they wont we can teach them a lesson, after all, whats a little fear of death.....

I'd be the last person to claim the cyclists are any less idiotic than the rest of the walking/driving population, but like pedestrians, they do seem to have more to fear from a collision.

 

[ged]

I'm trying to do my job !.......you are on a pleasure day out !...........MOVE !!

The truly scary thing here is that you clearly have no idea how that looks to the rest of us. Would starting the journey in good time to take account of the odd unexpected delay (or even an expected one) be out of the question? I am sooooo glad that I don't live in Northern Ireland.

I would give my left nut for a machine gun.

If you can stretch to both of them, then you have a deal. Definitely don't want any more in that mould.

 

[Robbi]

If you can stretch to both of them, then you have a deal. Definitely don't want any more in that mould.

that is seriously offensive..........reported and complained to admin

 

[BearInTheWoods]

After some of your remarks above, I'm surprised you're so sensitive. Did anyone report you for calling someone a liar?

 

[mountainm]

that is seriously offensive..........reported and complained to admin

It was very witty though... Zing!

 

[decorum]

that is seriously offensive..........reported and complained to admin

And inferring that you'd like to deal violence on other road users for failing to stop and doff their cap(s) was what?

 

[Robbi]

"stop and doff their cap"

don't remember that one. at least get your comebacks right ! what a laugh !

 

[decorum]

"stop and doff their cap"

don't remember that one. at least get your comebacks right ! what a laugh !

That's because I didn't use a direct, verbatim, quote of your two 'questionable' posts and also why I used the word 'inferring'. In two posts you infer that you'd like to do violence to cyclists who don't get out of your way. You seem to think that this type of inference is okay but then complain that Ged's response was offensive.

 

[RonW]

I rest my case......

 

[Robbi]

I rest my case......

you're spot on mate.

 

[Paul_B]

Interesting how thread is going the usual way. Wish i hadnt started it.

The first post was meant to be a statement of a journey of awareness over my prejudice with bikers. How id realised drivers vitriolic and prejudiced views on cyclists matched my views on bikers. I was stating how ive learnt not to use irresponsible bikers as an excuse to ignore my responsibility to think about other road users as much as me. What this thread has become is a set of opposing opinions where people are blaming others road users for the perceived sins of minorities in the opposing side. Time to change the debate perhaps?

A few pointers from a cyclist's view. London has boxes at lights for cyclists to wait in so they can be seen and can get a head start when lights change. Cars bikers trucks and buses arent allowed in them for this reason. That is not being enforced so doesnt happen. Cyclists have had to find a survival strategy. That is in certain situations to jump red lights. Dont condone it, never done it, but if the choice is going under a large truck turning left ill do it.
If motor vehicles kept out of those red cycle lanes and advanced boxes at lights then perhaps fewer light jumpers and fewer cyclist deaths.
Also cyclists are encouraged by cyclist bodies even police to own their space on the road. Riding in the middle of the road might slow cars but might stop adangerous overtaking move without space for it.
Cycle lanes on roads are not cycle lanes because vehicles use them even if red cycle lanes. Should be gaining the drivers a fine but no enfor ement so no real cycle lane. How is a red surface colour and a white line going to stop a car hitting a cyclist?
I do an 8 mile commute (used to anyway) at average speed of 24mph. Actual range is stationary to high 30s. I accelerate initially faster than a car but take longer to reach 30mph obviously. If you see a gap for overtaking please bear in mind i am still on a road vehicle in motion even if it is a bicycle. If you cant make the overtake imagining me to occupy the road space of a car at the same speed then you wont be sure to make the manouevre without affecting my motion. Ill be forced to slow or worse get hit/swerve toavoid getting hit.
I have often been faster than the traffic. Even on open road! My top speed has been 58mph. I can, on certain roads consistently get into the 50s mph! Im no ultra fast racing cyclist neither. Cyclists can be fast, unpredictable, safe, dangerous, stupid,safe,etc. Just like motorists. What sets us apart is flesh. Flesh that can contact your 1500kg hunk of metal with only fabric for protection. Something for cyclists and motorists to remember. No matter who's fault it was, a cyclist or indeed biker is easily killed. Would you want to be the driver involved in the death of another person whether it was your fault or not? Seriously, could you live with that? Think bike! Think cyclist! Think car, truck, bus, taxi, heck just think!
You got any relatives who bike or cycle? Want to go to their funeral?