Confused and concerned, advice sought

[Antonia]

Greetings Folks

I must admit to being rather new here so please forgive me if I should have been able to find this out myself but, I am gathering my basic kit and am a bit concerned as to the type and legality of knives. I wish to remain totally within the law, but I wish to purchase a knife that will be suitable for my bushcraft needs. I have read a thread about the legallity on here but have been left even more confused.
Any one willing to recommend a suitable legal knife for bushcraft here I would really appriciate it.

Kind regards

Antonia

 

[Graham_S]

Right, Basicly it goes a little like this.
You may carry without needing a good reason a knife with a blade length of 3" (that does not lock)
Think swiss army knife/stockman style.
You can carry knife with a locking/fixed blade (of any length) if you have a good reason to do so.
Going out with all your gear to take part in bushcrafting activities should be a good reason.
s139 of the CJA applies.

 

[Matt.S]

Further to Graham's succint summary, there are several types of knife illegal to sell in the UK -- but you won't find these sold by any reputable supplier. These include 'flick knives', 'butterfly knives' and 'push daggers'. The term 'illegal' is often used inaccurately, and should be clarified as to 'illegal for everyday carry' (i.e. without a 'good reason') and 'illegal for purchase/sale'.

A folding, non-locking pocket knife like a typical Swiss Army knife is a handy multi-use tool and legal for everyday carry. Furthermore such a knife is inexpensive and sufficient (though not perfect) for many 'bushcraft' activities.

 

[JonathanD]

To put it even more simply. If you are going bushcrafting into the woods, a fixed blade knife or folder is perfectly legal in any size. If you are going shoping or for a stroll down the street, it is not.

 

[robevs73]

nail clippers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!

 

[Ph34r]

Swords are generally best excluded.

 

[TomBartlett]

Just to complicate things further, where do folding saws fit into this?

 

[FGYT]

Just to complicate things further, where do folding saws fit into this?

is it a sharply pointed artical does it havea cutting edge if yes to either of these questions then S139 applies the word knife is only mentioned in the exemption of a pocket knife

:edantic Mode ON::
so pencil if its sharp also should only be carries with good reason ie proceeding to a place to write something down ( just in case i need it is not good reason)

you could however carry a blunt pencil and a sub 3" non locking knife at any time and sharpen the pencil when needed then blunt again when finished etc etc
:edantic Mode OFF::

 

[Antonia]

Thank you all for this information. I suppose if I was going into the woods for a forage I should therefore take a good penknife < 3" and too, if I am going on a bushcraft type weekend etc, I may carry a more substantial knife in my pack, being able to show a good reason. I do not want to go over the top. Thanks folks.

Regards

Antonia

 

[Ogri the trog]

There are age considerations to be taken into account, but I'll let someone else post them as I'm well in excess of most age related matters (only bus pass to go ).

Your supposition of a forage in the woods would also be covered by laws of access, permission to take and species restrictions.

So you'd need permission to enter the woodland with specific mention of taking certain plants and you'd also need to make yourself aware of any local restrictions on species that cannot be taken.

Sounds like a minefield but its largely common sense and courtesy.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[brancho]

There are age considerations to be taken into account, but I'll let someone else post them as I'm well in excess of most age related matters (only bus pass to go ).

Age only comes into the prchase of knives etc but there is no age limit on carrying knives etc.

 

[nigeltm]

Your supposition of a forage in the woods would also be covered by laws of access, permission to take and species restrictions.

This is a good point. Trespass is a civil matter. Trespass while carring a knife can (if the officer is feeling ar*ey) could result in a criminal charge of armed trespass.

As a general rule of thumb if you have a reasonable excuse to carry a knife you shouldn't get into trouble. Just remember not to wave it around in public and if approached by a Police Officer be polite and reasonable.

And no matter what anyone says a knife is not an offensive weapon unless the type of knife is specifically listed in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 as prohibited or you have used it as a weapon or threatened to do so.

 

[brancho]

And no matter what anyone says a knife is not an offensive weapon unless the type of knife is specifically listed in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 as prohibited or you have used it as a weapon or threatened to do so.

Or if you are foolish enough to agree its a weapon like the pensioner who was done earlier this year.

 

[caliban]

Or if you are foolish enough to agree its a weapon like the pensioner who was done earlier this year

That's a good point. Darren Day was charged with possessing an offensive weapon for carrying a kubotan, but he was charged because he agreed with the officers that it was an offensive weapon. So even if you're carrying a legal sub-3 folder, I'd be wary of any questions like, "Do you realise that this is an offensive weapon?", or "That's a nasty edge on that, that could cause serious injury". If you agree you're basically obliging them to charge you. Not knocking the men in blue, it's just that I'm sure they are having their arms heavily twisted from above on this issue.

I'd get a modified Svord for everyday, and a fixed blade that I'd only carry if I had camping gear, such as a tent and stove and sleeping bag, and was heading for camping country. I'd keep the fixie in the bottom of my rucksack anywhere near a town or unbanized area. I reckon that should keep you trouble free.

 

[Melonfish]

"That's a nasty edge on that, that could cause serious injury".

this should always be answered with, "Actually thats a misconception, dull edges cause the majority of injuries where good sharp edges allow for easier working" although expect to get lip in return for that one
always keep in mind it is a tool not a weapon and you should never have to seriously argue your case in a court of law.

and as caliban says fixed and folders are best kept in the pack until you arrive at your suitable green area.

here's an official police site that gives the rundown on knives and whats legal:
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q337.htm

 

[brancho]

That's a good point. Darren Day was charged with possessing an offensive weapon for carrying a kubotan, but he was charged because he agreed with the officers that it was an offensive weapon. .

The problem with this quote is that a kubotan is a weapon and is illegal to carry due to that.

 

[caliban]

The problem with this quote is that a kubotan is a weapon and is illegal to carry due to that

Yeah, slipped up there, however, it was being used as a keyring and Mr Day would have gotten much more mileage out of "singing dumb". Instead he went down the "oh my God!, I had no idea. Yes it is a weapon. I'm so sorry" route. The point I'm making is that decent people tend to be apologetic and agree with the police to show good faith. If your case comes before a judge, your "reasonable" discourse will be seen as an admission of guilt. I'm not being anti-police, but they are obliged to "fish" for possible offenses and are obliged to arrest or charge you if you admit you have committed an offence. Anyway we are getting a bit sidetracked, sorry about that.

 

[Laurentius]

I don't think the law is intended to bully anyone pursuing innocent country pursuits.

If you were to pick up a piece of dead wood and brandish it like a club it would become a weapon, and of course if you were in somebody elses woods armed trespass.

I asked the forestry commission recently whether they would object if I took the odd piece of wood to fashion into a walking stick and they said that was reasonable so long as I didn't actually harvest the woods regularly. Nought wrong in using the saw blade of my SAK to aid me in that either.

 

[Big Geordie]

Hi Antonia,

Now we've got that awkward bit out of the way, tell us where you're hoping to go, what you're hoping to see, what you're going to do etc..
Sometimes we can pay too much attention to the "stuff", when really we should be looking forward to all the fun.

So what fun are you going to have and where?
That was a great second post btw.

G

 

[Antonia]

Many thanks for the advice folks.

I intend to forage, walk and camp mainly within woodland and too, around the sea shore. I love the woods and I love sea food I enjoy ancient technology and archaeology, astronomy, aikido and travelling in my van.

A Swiss style penknife may be ideal for me but, the last one I had broke with ease so I shy away from them generally. Maybe a general tool knife to carry semi exposed and a Firesteel knife in my bag, I shall want to make fires at camp.
I need to get back to a simple life, I am loosing myself in complexity and stress. Heehehee the older I get the more I understand that.
As with my water sports, I realise that the correct equipment can mean the differece between life and death, or at the least the difference between enjoying the experience and suffering it. To that end I need to make sure that the limited monies I have are wisely spent. I hope to learn a great deal here, many thanks for the advice.

Regards

Antonia