Cold Forging

[shadow57]

Hello...

I have nearly finished making my first knife which is made from an old file

Went through the motions of annealing, hardening and tempering using the schools small gas furnace and torch.

This is a bit dogey as it attracts attention (as the equipment is never used) of pupils who are very interested in what the Schools Computer Technician is making. Also that it does not heat the steel enough for playing at blacksmiths.

Then I found an article on cold forging the metal for knife blades and etching at

http://www.navaching.com/forge/forgeindex.html

I just wondered if any others have tried this technique.


John

 

[Pappa]

Isn't it against the law to have a knife on school premises?

 

[Goose]

Isn't it against the law to have a knife on school premises?

Unless you have writtten permission from the head teacher

 

[directdrive]

Thanks for the web address. I've fooled around a bit with hot forging but never with cold forging. Very interesting stuff! I intend to try it out but am afraid the 3/16" 1095 I've been using will work harden to the point that little will occur. I suppose one could do stock removal down to a certain point and then cold forge to complete the shape......I'll get back and let you know how it goes.......Good Luck, Bruce

 

[arctic hobo]

Isn't it against the law to have a knife on school premises?

Or just in public, without a good reason...

 

[Goose]

Or just in public, without a good reason...

In the middle of making it seems a pretty good reason!

 

[arctic hobo]

In the middle of making it seems a pretty good reason!

That's true!
I was thinking more along the lines of the copper saying "so, why are you making knives instead of tapping at computers?", though.
I'm sure it's all fine though, if the school are happy

 

[demographic]

Cold forging eh?

The words, Avoid and Plague spring to mind.

Have you ever tried using welding wire (half hard) as lockwire?

Instead of annealing it before twisting?

Snap.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Isn't it against the law to have a knife on school premises?

Unless you have a good reason, or if it is for educational purposes.

Don't cold forge steel. It will work harden and crack.

In my old school's metalwork rooms, we had oxy-acetylene torches that we used in one project for forging and heat treating screwdrivers out of silver steel.

I was thirteen at the time, and about the only kid who felt confident playing with the stuff. I forged five screwdrivers in that lesson, in addition to my own.

I would have thought that if you had a few firebricks to build an U shaped wall, you'll be able to hold enough heat to get a 4" to 6" piece of steel up to forging temperature easily.

Look at what JM did with charcoal andsome firebricks, never mind gas!

K.

 

[shadow57]

Yep...your correct you are not allowed knives at school unless they are...

Scalpels and razor blades for dissection in Biology.
Scalpels and razor blades cutting card in Art.
Vegetable and meat knives in Food Technology.
Stanley knives and wood chisels in CDT. and lots of other types I suppose

I should have mentioned that only the rough blank of the knife and heat treatment was carried out in the school as an exercise for a bored technician. It was never in a sharpened state.

I think you probably mean no knives in school that could be used for harming people.

Common sense dictates what is a safe practice.b

But as a lot of things in our PC world (especially in education) common sense died many years ago.

John.

 

[Pappa]

I only mentioned it because a while back I was going to ask my local school if I could use their equipment for making a knife. In the back of my mind I was wondering at which point along the process the piece of metal would suddenly become a knife.

Pappa

 

[shadow57]

Thats an interesting point...

I believe if I went and asked my Headteacher for permission she would definitely say NO!!!!!

If I asked her for some time off it would be NO...... . Payrise .... NO.... b Proper contract..... NO.... b. Money for equipment ....... NO NO NO NO etc

Do you get my drift....so I dont approach her

but the MAN from CDT....he say Yes

Seriously.....I make things in the school workshop with the teechas permission and he has even asked me to put up a display to show the kids.

I have made firepistons,longbows, mini cookers, arrows, leather belts, leather bracers, firesteels , crystal radios, linen shirts,head gear,plating metals with electrolysis and other bits and bobs. The kids dont get involved in these things but they would love too.

Can you imagine the response from the kids if they were told they had to design and build an English Longbow...Investigate the history of Longbows....investigate materials used.....investigate battles where used, discuss designs and decorations and the scientific principal of a Bow.

They would go mental.....and possibly stop threatening me with headbutts

Of course there would be some kids thinking that they could make one and shoot a mate or two for fun. I was given that as an answer when I was nieve and asked the Head if we could start an Archery / Bow building club.
The school would be held responsible for shot pupils So NO

Anyway I have prattled on a bit...I make my bits and bobs and everyone is safe.

John

 

[Goose]

Thats an interesting point...

I believe if I went and asked my Headteacher for permission she would definitely say NO!!!!!

If I asked her for some time off it would be NO...... . Payrise .... NO.... b Proper contract..... NO.... b. Money for equipment ....... NO NO NO NO etc

Do you get my drift....so I dont approach her

but the MAN from CDT....he say Yes

Seriously.....I make things in the school workshop with the teechas permission and he has even asked me to put up a display to show the kids.

I have made firepistons,longbows, mini cookers, arrows, leather belts, leather bracers, firesteels , crystal radios, linen shirts,head gear,plating metals with electrolysis and other bits and bobs. The kids dont get involved in these things but they would love too.

Can you imagine the response from the kids if they were told they had to design and build an English Longbow...Investigate the history of Longbows....investigate materials used.....investigate battles where used, discuss designs and decorations and the scientific principal of a Bow.

They would go mental.....and possibly stop threatening me with headbutts

Of course there would be some kids thinking that they could make one and shoot a mate or two for fun. I was given that as an answer when I was nieve and asked the Head if we could start an Archery / Bow building club.
The school would be held responsible for shot pupils So NO

Anyway I have prattled on a bit...I make my bits and bobs and everyone is safe.

John

You thought of running an after school/lunchtime club with the cdt teacher?

 

[Keith_Beef]

asked my Headteacher for [a] Proper contract..... NO....

Hmm...

I have made firepistons,longbows, mini cookers, arrows, leather belts, leather bracers, firesteels , crystal radios, linen shirts,head gear,plating metals with electrolysis and other bits and bobs. The kids dont get involved in these things but they would love too.

Why? When I was in school, we did stuff like that.some things, like electroplating copper onto coins, would be done three times over:

• once in Physics class,
• once in Chemistry class,
• once in Technology class.

I was nieve and asked the Head if we could start an Archery / Bow building club.
The school would be held responsible for shot pupils So NO

Make it a condition of attending the club,

• that the kids have insurance against damaging property
• that kids' parents will not hold the teacher, the club, or its representatives responsible for any injury caused by children's actions.

Is such a thing possible in England these days?

When I was in the fifth form at school, I used to attend an archery club that met in a nearby F.E. college in winter and on the school playing fields in the summer,

K

 

[shadow57]

Today
As an experiment into cold forging I took an 8" file (that had been annealed previously) and had a go a hitting one edge of the file with hammer onanvil
The edge flattened and splayed itself out and I stopped when there was no more distortion.
Onto the grider to clean/dress it up and put on an edge....then tempered to blue and into oil

I have been trying to sharpen it on my stone (at home) and I am surprised to find that its bleeding sharp whether its because of the hammering or possibly due to bad annealing I dont know yet but it did distort when I hammered it so it must have been annealed.

Further test tomorrow

John

 

[shadow57]

Hammered another piece of annealled file today and had a look for cracking or breakage.
The photo attached is a bit poor but it does show that it is possible to shape without breakage.

The whole length of the knife edge was hammered without any cracking then it was then taken down on the grindstone.

The second photo shows a roughly ground edge. I the hit the edge and the middle with the same force using the ball end of a hammer. The markings in the middle are a lot larger than the ones on the ground edge owing to different types of hardness. There was no sign of cracks.

So it may be possible to cold forge an old file.