Climbing/descending gear advice

[ateallthepies]

I've often thought of what would happen if you were in a situation where descending a slope using a rope would be beneficial and you had something like 2-3mm dyneema, arborist throw line or even good old 550 Paracord on you?

Im not talking of any inclines where if you fall you just dangle just steep slopes. I did this all the time as a kid with some right old manky bits of fraying rope and survived!

I'm thinking that proper climbing rope will be best but it's not the sort of thing that one can carry with ease and that 40+ m of rope is quite bulky!

So with it's my ultimate decision and risk would something like The above mentioned cords even work in a descending figure of eight loop?

 

[StuMsg]

3mm cord on a fig 8 descender probably wouldn't give enough friction.

Try some things at home in a safe environment. the cord should be strong enough to hold multiple times (not sure how many) your body weight to account for fraying / damage and knots, slipping, stumbles, small dynamic loads.

When climbing, my abseil tat (cord that gets left behind at the anchor) is at least 5mm (6kN, 600kg minimum breaking strength). The thinnest I'd abseil on is 8mm half rope.

Depends on what slopes you are on, if it's like scrambling then I'd go with 8mm half rope.

Stay safe - if your unsure just leave it.

 

[Madriverrob]

What about a walkers rope , used for short roping on inclines or supporting a second on scrambles, shorter and thinner than a climbing rope but still dynamic ?
Note not to be used as a specific climbing rope , not safe for a lead climber to fall on !



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[Rich D]

I don't like using my fig of eight descender with my skinny sport climbing rope that's 9mm, but it's also dry treated so is a bit more slippy.
On non climbing rope on not too steep slopes a body belay may work best. Just got to look at the consequence of break in the system I suppose and as you say make your own decisions as to safety. Personally it wouldn't be for me, I'd prefer to trust my hands/feet/elbows/knees and bum than a dodgy rope system.

 

[ateallthepies]

Some good info so far thanks.

The sort of slopes I'm on about are things I would think twice about using body alone to scramble up or down and nothing at any decent height. An example is somewhere near me in a quarry where there is a place I would like to explore at the bottom but the last 20 feet is just too steep for me to get down safely on my own.

I will do research on this as I know next to nothing of climbing and the gear used but would like a small kit that could get me out of a scrape safely. Rope, descender, ascender maybe and grapple hook for the kid in me still!?

 

[vestlenning]

A solid carabiner and the Munter hitch is a classic when belaying.

 

[The Cumbrian]

If you're only using it for ascent or descent then you don't need dynamic rope. If you choose a rope that's less than 8 or 9mm you'll also struggle to find a descender or ascender that will work with it. Thin ropes are also more subject to damage by abrasion.

Cheers, Michael.

 

[Rich D]

probably worth a look, as you'll have to attach your "rope" to something
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climb-skills-how-to-build-a-belay and at the bottom is a link to a free download from the bmc on chosing ropes https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climb-skills-how-to-build-a-belay

Not meaning to sound like your mum, but climbing gear and ropes etc are really well tested for a reason, always worth considering what are the consequences of this going wrong could be. A fall of 20 foot could have life changing consequences for you and your loved ones. Stay safe fella. PS where's the quarry?

 

[StuMsg]

If you think that you would be interested in doing this often then I think it will be worth seeking out experienced people / qualified climbing guides to gain enough experience and skills to go off on your own. Abseiling can be dangerous - and if something goes wrong when your in an isolated location by yourself you could be in trouble. Do you know anyone with trad climbing experience? they could accompany you and provide an "insider's" opinion.

If you go down the climbing/abseiling route then things to look to learn are:
- self rescue techniques;
- hardware knowledge;
- ascending and descending ropes;
- anchor set up.
You'll soon see how much gear is required and why: rope, helmet, harness, ascender/descenders, slings, carabiners, prussics . . .

There is a good chance that I'm going over the top but it's hard to say "x will be fine" without seeing each scenario - If the slopes you want to go down are truly not severe then perhaps a less robust system is required but I'd say where failure results in a muddy bum slide only. If it's rocky then a 20ft slide could be rather dangerous.

Either way, don't chance it if you don't know how much risk you are taking.

Stu

 

[Limaed]

If you think that you would be interested in doing this often then I think it will be worth seeking out experienced people / qualified climbing guides to gain enough experience and skills to go off on your own. Abseiling can be dangerous - and if something goes wrong when your in an isolated location by yourself you could be in trouble. Do you know anyone with trad climbing experience? they could accompany you and provide an "insider's" opinion.

If you go down the climbing/abseiling route then things to look to learn are:
- self rescue techniques;
- hardware knowledge;
- ascending and descending ropes;
- anchor set up.
You'll soon see how much gear is required and why: rope, helmet, harness, ascender/descenders, slings, carabiners, prussics . . .

There is a good chance that I'm going over the top but it's hard to say "x will be fine" without seeing each scenario - If the slopes you want to go down are truly not severe then perhaps a less robust system is required but I'd say where failure results in a muddy bum slide only. If it's rocky then a 20ft slide could be rather dangerous.

Either way, don't chance it if you don't know how much risk you are taking.

Stu

Sound advice, it's hard to carry out a risk assessment unless you understand the risk in the first place.

I spent a week in hospital after a climbing accident where I though 'I could get away with it', not recommended.

 

[rg598]

If you are looking for a rope just to stabilize yourself and have something to hold on to with one hand while going up and down slopes, then most ropes will do. If on the other hand you may have to rely on the rope and gear in a way similar to that of a climber, then you need the proper gear. There is no way around it.

My point is, if you think that the rope will at any point have to hold up your weight, especially in a fall, then you need proper climbing gear and you need to know how to use.

 

[baggins]

Seriously mate, if you're looking at this type of thing (and i know this was a rather hypothetical question), only rely on proper descending gear, designed for the purpose.
even on a seemingly gentle incline, if you are placing your weight on a line, your centre of gravity changes (mores if you are carrying a sack). Para cord, whilst it will technically hold your weight, is not designed to be shocked or put through the type of abrasion and stress that you are talking about (don't even consider climbers throw line, i regularly break my dyneema line when i get it stuck. a 12 stone bloke tugging repeatedly causes it to fail after 5 mins, lol!).
Stick to the extra weight of either a proper climbers line or a walkers confidence rope. or look at caving supplies.
to minimise gear, Vestlennings suggestion of the Munter (or Italian) hitch is a great idea, and is also useful to lower kit etc, and is more reliable on narrower diameter ropes compared with devices such as figure of 8s, ATCs etc.
Hope this helps and enjoy yourself
As an afterthought, i thought i'd just urge you to watch this, post the other day on here.Article: New Mountain Rescue video made to raise awareness

 

[mrcharly]

Good advice here. Do learn from people who climb (and not lycra jocks down at the local climbing wall).

Are you talking about when you are solo walking/scrambling? If so, a rope isn't going to help much, unless you are going to abandon it on every stretch (or abandon some climbing gear that you ran the rope through.

I used to solo climb with rope and gear, S climbing it is called. Bloody hard work, requires lots of gear, lots of practice and knowledge.

Learning climbing skills would be more useful to you, I feel. How to work out a safe route down, how to get secure grip, how to use your feet on rock.

 

[Tommyd345]

In terms of a device, instead of a figure 8, you could get a bug? Off the top of my head, the black diamond one has teeth in to grip thinner rope (I doubt It would grab Paracord). However redirecting your rope will work miricles, for example a rope holding me (about 16 stone). A single rope means you have to pull my full weight. If you redirect it, (going back on itself through a karabiner or something) the weight halfs, and halfs again and again the more you redirect. So if you got a piece of Paracord long enough to redirect two or three times, there's a lot less strain on the rope - therefore less chance of breaking!
A piece of static rope however will do you fine for just about anything except proper climbing (leading) it will take abuse from ascending and is the best for descending as there is minimum stretch!
Hope this helps, I do this kind of stuff for a living, mainly working with dynamic climbing ropes though

 

[Tiley]

Figure 8 descenders are OK but, for what they do, they're bulky and heavy. I would recommend something like a Black Diamond ATC/DMM Bug or whatever the modern equivalents are. That, with something like a caving rope (i.e. not dynamic) should do you for most descents. Although the Munter Reverse or Italian hitch is widely used in the Alps for speed and ease, it can make coiling your rope at the end a little more challenging: the filaments within the mantel of your kernmantel rope become wonderfully twisted and, while it is reasonably easy to sort out, it requires a bit of patience and delays your safe arrival in camp a little.

However, please remember: going down is always the most dangerous part of any antics in the steeper world and requires practice, confidence and the correct gear to ensure that you arrive at the bottom safely and able to function the following day. If you're worried about the bulk of 40m of rope and associated (necessary) tat, perhaps you would be better off finding a safer, less steep way off.

 

[Jimmy Bojangles]

Also remember that knots weaken the rope you're using, some I gather up to 40%! I'd also have some cord with you to make a prusik loop in case you need it for getting back up.

 

[mrcharly]

Also remember that knots weaken the rope you're using, some I gather up to 40%! I'd also have some cord with you to make a prusik loop in case you need it for getting back up.

Have you ever used prusik loops?

It is incredibly hard work climbing a rope using them. I would not ever recommend using them unless absolutely necessary.

 

[ateallthepies]

Lots of great advise to digest, thanks!

On the descending bit I was hoping there would be something to loop the rope around and let it dangle doubled up, then I could pull one end when I'm down to get my rope back. Sure there is a technical term for this? If I'm climbing up then the rope would just be an aid not to stop me falling so much.

May look into some sort of climbing course to get the basics down?

 

[Limaed]

Lots of great advise to digest, thanks!

On the descending bit I was hoping there would be something to loop the rope around and let it dangle doubled up, then I could pull one end when I'm down to get my rope back. Sure there is a technical term for this? If I'm climbing up then the rope would just be an aid not to stop me falling so much.

May look into some sort of climbing course to get the basics down?

Lots of popular climbing areas with difficult descents have abseil 'tat' at the top around a convenient anchor, the tat is made from climbing tape or old bits of climbing rope often with a mallion or krab to loop the abseil rope through . This is accepted practise in the UK but holds an inherent risks with anchor degradation over time.

 

[mrcharly]

Lots of popular climbing areas with difficult descents have abseil 'tat' at the top around a convenient anchor, the tat is made from climbing tape or old bits of climbing rope often with a mallion or krab to loop the abseil rope through . This is accepted practise in the UK but holds an inherent risks with anchor degradation over time.

Translating that for a non-climber; never ever ever ever rely on existing tat to protect your life.

ateallthepies, as I said above you would be better served by learning some climbing experience. Either go on a course or contact a local club that will take you climbing.
Avoid climbing walls, all they will teach you is how to hang on to climbing walls and tie a few knots. Very few of the skills learnt there translate onto real rock faces or to scrambling.