Cleaning a carbon blade.

M

Mouldsy

Guest
Try to store the knife out of its sheath though, especially if it is a leather sheath.[/QUOTE]
Why can you not store a carbon knife in a leather sheath?Does it rust more quickly or does it weaken the knife in any way?I am asking because when my knife is not in use I store it in its sheath in the shed.
 

Mirius

Nomad
Jun 2, 2007
499
1
North Surrey
Rust is of course the danger here. Moisture can form on metal as a result of changes in temperature, and if enclosed in a sheath then it can't dry. This is of course worse in a leather sheath which will tend to hold onto the moisture. Of course if it's stored somewhere dry then it's not so much of an issue in my mind.
 

michiel

Settler
Jun 19, 2006
578
2
37
Belgium - Herentals
The sheath holds moisture. This can ause your blade to rust. I wouldn't worry about it much though. I never had a knife rust in it's sheath, but I don't live anywhere near the sea.
 

benp1

Nomad
Nov 30, 2006
473
0
43
London
Just to expand on that a bit, wood ash, when wet gives off potassium hydroxide (also known as lye) and was used in the proces of converting fat to soap. Originally soap was made from fat or oil. Using potassium hydroxide (an alkali), or commercially sodium hydroxide (also known as caustic soda) will convert fat (an acid) to a neutral pH state and make a material which will cause dirt molecules to separate from clothes, skin, pots etc and adhere to itself. This is then washed away with water taking the dirt with it. The material is soap. If it's made with vegetable oil, it becomes liquid soap. If it's made with fat (or hydrogenated oil) it becomes bar soap.

Adding ash to greasy pots allows the potassium hydroxide to convert the grease to a soapy state and can be washed away with water afterwards.

Eric


Eric, great post. I always wondered why people said to use ash. Always found it hard to believe! Great knowledge
 

littleknife

Member
Jun 7, 2007
13
0
Arlington, Virginia, USA
Great suggestions, and great post, Eric!

Let me add a few minor points:

Most modern leather sheaths are tanned quickly, so they retain quite a bit of the acids or chromium used in the process. The moisture condensed in the sheath solubilises this corrosive stuff. I don't know if treating the sheath with wax or other water sealant could decrease this leaching, but the condensation would still occur.
A frequently overlooked way the condensation might happen is when an otherwise dry knife or axe is brought in from the cold into a warmer place and left in the sheath.

For quick, non abrasive rust removal sticking the blade a few times into an onion helps, but I never tried it for the purpose of removing stains, which are different type of oxids than the red rust. Onion might even enhance patina formation, I don't know.

The patina, i.e. stain is not hazardous. Acidic food would dissolve iron both from a shiny and a stained carbon steel blade, so both can impart metallic taste to some foods. Are patinated surfaces more prone to impart metallic taste? I don't know.

I have read on Bladeforums, that here in the USA carbon steel butcher knives are not used in large meat processing plants any more.
I don't know if it is actually true, but the explanation for this was that bacteria from the butchered animals purportedly adhered better to the surface of carbon steel knives than to that of stainless steel ones.
I can see how this can be a problem, with the amount of cutting involved.
I don't think though this is an issue for a utility/camp knife, since no one uses moras to butcher animals on industrial scale. If a carbon steel knife is properly cleaned (washed in soapy water or other detergent) after cutting potentially contaminated things, it should not pose microbiological risk if used for subsequent food preparation.

For frequently used blades, olive or vegetable oil coating should work fine, however in the long term those oils can go rancid, especially if smeared over the inner surface of the sheath, or places which are difficult to clean. A safe alternative is to use pharmacy grade mineral oil, i.e. liquid paraffin. Use only a little, the more you use the more it tends to aggregate into separate drops. Adding a little bit of beeswax would create a better adhering and more permanent coating. However beeswax itself may contain varying amounts of organic acid, so if shiny mint look is the goal, better use Renaissance wax.

Remember that mineral oil softens leather and thus with time weakens the sheath, so make sure it does not rub too much onto the sheath.
 

jamesraykenney

Forager
Aug 16, 2004
145
0
Beaumont, TX
If you mean clean,as in safe for food,then soap and water will be fine.Dry and rub with a little vegetable oil to protect.

If you mean bright and shiny like a new pin,why bother?It won't make it work any better.

If you want to have a nice shiny knife,buy two,use one and keep the other one in a drawer.:p

Vegetable oil will turn rancid... Use Mineral oil...
To be extra safe, get the medical grade from the local pharmacy/chemist.
It works great for this, will NOT turn rancid:yuck:, and is safe enough to drink, though you should probably save that for when your guts need a little 'loosening up':lmao:
 

jamesraykenney

Forager
Aug 16, 2004
145
0
Beaumont, TX
Try to store the knife out of its sheath though, especially if it is a leather sheath.
Why can you not store a carbon knife in a leather sheath?Does it rust more quickly or does it weaken the knife in any way?I am asking because when my knife is not in use I store it in its sheath in the shed.[/quote]


There are actually two reasons, one is mostly correct and the other depends on the leather...

The first is that the leather can hold moisture... I think you can figure out the rest of that one...

The second depends on whether the leather is vegetable tanned or not...
Vegitable tanned leather should not hurt your knives, but some type of tanning leave the leather actually currosive...
 

Dave Budd

Gold Trader
Staff member
Jan 8, 2006
2,908
335
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Dartmoor (Devon)
www.davebudd.com
First thing I would say is to repeat that if you want a clean and shiny knife, don't use it!

But assuming you do use it and it is a carbon blade. Yes it will discolour but that is not dangerous to your health. As long as you've cleaned it (for example with fairy liquid) then it's as clean as any of your other crockery!

In my experience the greater the patina, the less metallic taste you get. So a knife that is well used will be less likely to taint the food than a brand new one (although some artificially patinated baldes are not too bad either)

Also on the not of professional chefs and others in the food industry. It's alot of 'thou shalt do this' when it comes to hygene, whether they are currently allowing carbon blades (or wooden chopping boards, etc). I sharpen a lot of knives for butchers, chefs and restaurants and I have never come across a knife (or scissors) that I would count as clean. They very often have food stuck to the blade, especially against the handle/blade connection. There seems to be no difference between carbon and stainless knives in terms of which is washed up better.
 

Eric_Methven

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 20, 2005
3,600
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Durham City, County Durham
I sharpen a lot of knives for butchers, chefs and restaurants and I have never come across a knife (or scissors) that I would count as clean. They very often have food stuck to the blade, especially against the handle/blade connection. There seems to be no difference between carbon and stainless knives in terms of which is washed up better.

True enough. When I was a chef way back in the seventies, a wipe on the apron was considered normal and sufficient for most chefs. Mind you, piddling in the swill bin was not unknown too for some who couldn't be bothered to go to the loo.

Eric
 

Zammo

Settler
Jul 29, 2006
927
2
48
London
I wrapped my blade in vinegar coated tissue the other day to put a patina on it and when it was finished it left strange ridges on the metal of the blade. What could have caused this?
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
What knife have you got? If it has a laminated blade, it means you have a hard core sandwhiched between two soft outer pieces of metal. You have therefore brought the different metals out by etching it or patinating it with whatever you used so that you can visually see the different metals.
 

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