Christmas spirit...wheres it gone?

[Toddy]

Baldwin's sell it

The Gold is Sandarac....next page to this one
http://www.baldwins.co.uk/Gums-Balsams-And-Waxes/Gums/400

Sacred Fusion also have it....and with explanations
http://www.sacredfusion.co.uk/Sandarac-Gold

cheers,
M

 

[santaman2000]

Was it a pagan ritual, that brought about the tree decorating thing?? Winter solstice or something ???

The first known instance of decorating WITH a tree was the Romans bringing in evergreens to celebrate life in mid-winter (but the holiday they celebrated was Saturnalia in honor of the goddess Saturn) At that time the tree (and other greenery) WERE the decorations. The first known instance of putting decorations ON the tree was Martin Luther (the founder of the Reform movement and Lutheranism) in the mid 16th century.

Winter Solstice is but one non-Christian tradition at roughly the same time of year. Hanukka is a Jewish one and I believe there are also many pagan ones other than Solstice.

 

[rik_uk3]

Toddy, your right about smell. If I think back to my early days and Sunday's I remember the smell of cabbage, dad and the uncles smelling of beer...never drunk but a glass or two before lunch and then the sound of the Billy Cotton Band Show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-mgZm-E8wo.

My shopping is done, lasts presents arrived today, got the grandson new rugby kit (he's four in February) and is well into junior rugby. He's old enough this year to leave pork pie and a glass of port out for santa

 

[British Red]

Winter Solstice is but one non-Christian tradition at roughly the same time of year. Hanukka is a Jewish one and I believe there are also many pagan ones other than Solstice.

Its probably fair to say that many more ancient beliefs celebrated the "turning of the year" (longest night). The one thing that is fairly certain is that the Romans would not have conducted a census in the middle of Winter - so its not at all likely to have been a logical time of year for "Christmas". But almost all the traditions of that holiday - from the tree, through holly & ivy, to a flaming plum pudding are reflections of far earlier beliefs. This is not uncommon though. The etymology of the word "Easter" is just as interesting.

 

[Tadpole]

The etymology of the word "Easter" is just as interesting.

Not Ēastre, please tell me that you were not refering to the goddess "Ēostre/Ostara".
Bede made her up. Modelled on Freyja (the blessed lady)

 

[British Red]

Not at all - there are several schools of thought but the timing is coincedentally close to the Vernal equinox. The ink to austra (shine) seems more logical to me. My point is simply that festival is another of the "quarter day" celebrations and the etymology, whatever its origin, is not Christian.

 

[Tadpole]

Not at all - there are several schools of thought but the timing is coincedentally close to the Vernal equinox. The ink to austra (shine) seems more logical to me. My point is simply that festival is another of the "quarter day" celebrations and the etymology, whatever its origin, is not Christian.

I apologise.

 

[mountainm]

Its probably fair to say that many more ancient beliefs celebrated the "turning of the year" (longest night). The one thing that is fairly certain is that the Romans would not have conducted a census in the middle of Winter - so its not at all likely to have been a logical time of year for "Christmas". But almost all the traditions of that holiday - from the tree, through holly & ivy, to a flaming plum pudding are reflections of far earlier beliefs. This is not uncommon though. The etymology of the word "Easter" is just as interesting.

Hi-jacking other smaller religions festivals and sites of worship is a cunning marketing ploy if you're looking to ease people into a new religion. It happened an awful lot and the Romans were particularly good at it.

 

[mousey]

Thats a shame getting your own christmas cheer back a year later Tadpole [I'll have some and I'd put it to good use]

anyway it's just the end of November so time for the councils to get the lights up on the roads and shops to get their christmas stock out and christmas trees up....

MERRY CHRISTMAS.

 

[santaman2000]

Not at all - there are several schools of thought but the timing is coincedentally close to the Vernal equinox. The ink to austra (shine) seems more logical to me. My point is simply that festival is another of the "quarter day" celebrations and the etymology, whatever its origin, is not Christian.

I haven't done extensive research but I was generally taught that the timing of Easter coincides (deliberately) with the Jewish Seder. After all, it was the Seder that Jesus was celebrating at the last supper.

BTW I agree completely with your earlier comment (and reasoning) that it's unlikely that Jesus was actually born on what we currently celebrate as Christmas.

 

[wattsy]

my christmas spirit runs out well before december usually since we're now expected to start in october according to tv, shops etc. by the time it actually comes round i'm pig sick of it all

 

[British Red]

I haven't done extensive research but I was generally taught that the timing of Easter coincides (deliberately) with the Jewish Seder. After all, it was the Seder that Jesus was celebrating at the last supper.

BTW I agree completely with your earlier comment (and reasoning) that it's unlikely that Jesus was actually born on what we currently celebrate as Christmas.

Seems rational - but the name "Easter" as opposed to Seder/Passover is the intriguing bit (for me). The use of eggs and rabbits as icons of the celebaration is a curious throwback too (though perhaps more traceable to Germanic origin than other symbology). Clearly the celebration of the vernal equinox is found in many faiths - many (including but far from exclusively Judaeism) far older than Christian one.

Red

 

[Toddy]

If a Roman emperor hadn't become Christian then many reason that the West would have been a Mithraic believing culture.

Mithras too was born of a virgin, came back from the dead, was born at the Winter solstice, etc., etc.,.......probably the celebration that was co-opted by the early Christian church in the Roman heartlands. He was their soldier's god, and the soldiers were everywhere in their empire.

Mod hat on..........the discussion is interesting, but the first complaint and I have to close it down folks.
Can we just vere it back towards the OP's intent please ?

cheers,
Toddy