Chinese trad. skills

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philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
I've just heard some interesting stories from my wife about the village her father came from in south china. She says that she spent most of her summers there when she was little, and saw that the people there were largely outside the cash economy. Some of the traditional skills that she mentioned people using were very interesting, like weaving semi-waterproof waterproofs (you know what I mean) from the stalks of rice plants. They use bamboo to make all kinds of things. Also, they used some plant toxins to kill fish in small streams that they would dam somehow, and then dry them. The tiny little fish would be fried until crisp and then eaten whole. All those little bones must be a good source of calcium! Am I right that people in the amazon use something that de-oxygenates the water and suffocates the fish? Could it be the same?

We hope to go there in July during the rice harvest, so all being well, I'll have some interesting things to post. My experience of China so far is that bushcraft here would be fruitful but difficult to do legally. That wouldn't need to stop you, but you couldn't really bring axes, folding saws and the like through the airport. Combine that with the language problem and it would surely be too much for all but those with a lot of determination, time and money, or a chinese wife. :)
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
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the technique you describe for collecting and preparing fish is indeed the same as that used in south america and southern asia

let us know what you find, we await your return
 

PC2K

Settler
Oct 31, 2003
511
1
37
The Netherlands, Delft
my parents are from china. And they know a great deal of bushcraft. But the came here so they don't have to use them anymore. And then there son (me) is going to do that as a hobby... So they haven't taught me anything....
 

KIMBOKO

Nomad
Nov 26, 2003
379
1
Suffolk
I would be interested if you come across any pictures of the grass/straw cloak/coat or details of construction. It would interesting to compare to Otzi the icemans cloak and the Japanese style rice straw cape.
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
No problemo, Kimboko. I should be able to get some pics of anything like that if I get to see it. I'll find out as much as I can, and post it.

I also have a question about cordage for anybody that's feeling helpful: I've tried nettle cordage back in britain, but there aren't any here in the tropics. Does anyone know of anything that I could use, or have any general tips on 'types' of plants to look for? Should I look for something that looks like a nettle?! I'm in guangzhou, right near hong kong. :)
 

Ravenn

Member
Jan 13, 2005
49
0
Central, Ky,USA
It's "said" over here that fresh outer shell of Black Walnuts dropped in water will stun fish. I supose if it would, it woudl have to be in a concentrated area
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,992
4,645
S. Lanarkshire
philaw said:
No problemo, Kimboko. I should be able to get some pics of anything like that if I get to see it. I'll find out as much as I can, and post it.

I also have a question about cordage for anybody that's feeling helpful: I've tried nettle cordage back in britain, but there aren't any here in the tropics. Does anyone know of anything that I could use, or have any general tips on 'types' of plants to look for? Should I look for something that looks like a nettle?! I'm in guangzhou, right near hong kong. :)

There's ramie and a nettle from Nepal that grows up to 25 feet long that yields excellent fibre. Someone told me that it was being introduced around the tropics because it was potentially a useful cash crop. The Foreign Office sponsored some research many years ago and the details ended up in a booklet titled, "The Nettle in Nepal". Spinners and weavers in the UK are now being offered bamboo fibre. This is very fine and fluffy and looks potentially interesting. See

http://www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk/plant__fibres.htmn

Cheers,
Toddy
 

KIMBOKO

Nomad
Nov 26, 2003
379
1
Suffolk
Up until recently when plastic cable ties took over all the lashings on bamboo scaffold was made from thin strips of bamboo. Scaffolding went up the sides of many 6/7/8 storey buildings.
So if you are near any bamboo see if you can find someone to show you how to prepare it as rope/string. I recaned a seat with bamboo strips but that is very thin I would imagine thicker bits would be a bit like a withy .
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
Actually, there's a 6 storey building being constructed right outside my window, and they're using bamboo scaffolding! I'm such a lazy SOB; why don't I go ask the builders, and then report back? They're seem to be using nylon rope, but I've seen others using something woody that could well be bamboo. There's absolutely tons of the stuff around here, and it's as useful as everybody says. I tried walking through the local forest off-trail (risking snake bites?), and soon found that I needed a stick to push aside thorns and things, then it came in handy for scaring away 7 diseased looking dogs that took a dislike to me! It was interesting to see somebody's chicken (hen) sitting in the forest, looking like it was incubating eggs. It just sat perfectly still and hoped I hadn't seen it. I'd never seen a chicken in the 'wild' before, and it still amazes me that the dogs don't eat them.
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
Actually, right after I posted about cordage, I went off to teach my infant school kids, and found that it was some holiday or other, and they were making traditional food. It's rice and a couple of vegetables with raw pork in the middle, wrapped up in two bamboo leaves and steamed for hours until the rice is really sticky and flavoured by the leaves and meat. The interesting part, though, is that they tied the little bundles together with what the cook said was dried rice stalks. They're about 3mm in diameter and took, at a guess, 10-15kg to break. Pretty strong, eh? They're only about 60cm long, but you could make some seriously useful cordage by braiding them together. I'm hoping for more happy coincidences liket that!
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
you may well have rattan growing near you, whist not strictly a cordage it is fantastically strong and can be split for the desired thickness, great stuff for binding and tieing things
 

KIMBOKO

Nomad
Nov 26, 2003
379
1
Suffolk
philaw said:
Actually, right after I posted about cordage, I went off to teach my infant school kids, and found that it was some holiday or other, and they were making traditional food. It's rice and a couple of vegetables with raw pork in the middle, wrapped up in two bamboo leaves and steamed for hours until the rice is really sticky and flavoured by the leaves and meat. The interesting part, though, is that they tied the little bundles together with what the cook said was dried rice stalks. They're about 3mm in diameter and took, at a guess, 10-15kg to break. Pretty strong, eh? They're only about 60cm long, but you could make some seriously useful cordage by braiding them together. I'm hoping for more happy coincidences liket that!

"LIVE WITH YOUR EYES AND MIND OPEN"
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
Thanks for the tip on rattan, stuart, I'll look out for it. I went for a short walk in a bamboo grove this afternoon, and then came across where someone had made a simple shed with walls made of sections of bamboo tied together with... ...bamboo! They'd simply used strips from the sides of what looked like fairly mature bamboo, and twisted them around to tie things in place. Later, I tried chopping a piece of bamboo to make a staff, using a crappy little axe (cost 1 pound), and found for myself that even when I'd chopped through most of it, and could bend it around, I couldn't easily pull the pieces apart with fibres intact.

Here's another question for somebody: I found that the axe partly cut, and partly just CRUSHED it, splitting down the length of the shoot beyond the joint where I hoped to trim it. Is that normal with an axe cutting bamboo, and do I need a machete, or is my axe just too crappy and blunt?
 

jim_w

Tenderfoot
Jun 25, 2005
60
0
40
York
I would say that a machete/kukhuri/billhook would be the ticket for the job you describe, but a good sharp axe would do it. Did you sharpen the axe after buying it?


What's the weather like in China? :)
 

george

Settler
Oct 1, 2003
627
6
61
N.W. Highlands (or in the shed!)
philaw said:
Here's another question for somebody: I found that the axe partly cut, and partly just CRUSHED it, splitting down the length of the shoot beyond the joint where I hoped to trim it. Is that normal with an axe cutting bamboo, and do I need a machete, or is my axe just too crappy and blunt?

Hi Philaw

You'll probably find that because the axe is quite a thick wedge shape it will only go so far into the banboo before it splits off a bit of it below the cut you'r trying to make.

Tip when cutting bamboo with an axe is to hold the bamboo at the top in your left hand (assuming you're right handed) and place the bottom part, where you're going to trim it, on to something safe like a log or a stump. Tilt the bamboo to the left so that although you will be cutting straight down the cut will be going into the wood at a downwards angle of around 45 degrees ( it is next to impossible to cut bamboo with an axe by hitting it at 90 degrees straight across the grain) then cut through it by making 5 or 6 smaller cuts and turning the bamboo in your hand after each one. You can trim the cut afterwards to neaten it up. Be especially careful with the last cut as your axe will probably go straight through and you need to make sure that if it does it goes into the log/stump and not your leg. Takes a bit of practise to get ti neat.

George

George
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
Thank you George and Jim! I did make an effort to sharpen the axe, but I'm not very good at sharpening knives and am worse with axes. Plus, it's a very bad axe! The weather here, Jim, is nuts. on a typical day it's very humid and 30ish degrees. The rain comes down hard and often, and if the skies are actually clear it'll be an intollerable 35c! George, Chopping at 90 degrees to the bamboo is exactly what I did! I guess that if it's hard with a sharp axe, it's hardly surprising I crushed it! I'll try to find a machete type thing like the locals sometimes use, and then follow George's instructions!
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
I've just got back from a week of travelling around guangxi province in southwest china and had a great time! The only bad point was when I rode a bamboo raft and then swam in a beautiful river with my wife and found three days later that my wedding ring was gone! There are worse places I could've lost it. Anyhow, my bushcraft was limited by the company, and by the fact that our tent proved to be little more than ballast. It seemed like a great idea to take one, but every flat bit of land there has something built or growing on it, and I could really see some dirt-poor farmer killing us for our cash if we were way out there alone.

I still saw some things that you all might be interested in. The villages there are populated by ethnic minorities, and have become a big tourist draw in the last fifteen years since somebody showed the world some photos of their spectacular rice terraces. 800 year old terraces dug into the side of mountains sound fairly impressive, but when you see them spreading several hundred metres up both sides of a valley it's something else entirely. Of the two villages we went to, the second had only had electricity for 18 months, and the road was blasted out of the mountains at about the same time. Before that people had to walk for a day to the nearest town. Even now, the road stops before the entrance to the village and you walk 20-90 minutes to one of the guesthouses spread around every side of the valley. On our second day there we moved up to the highest hotel (at 1100m) and the most amazing views from our room.

The locals live in 100% traditional houses, made from the pine trees in the valley. They use entire trunks for the uprights, and have two to three floors. The bottom floor is like a shed/ barn, full of bits of wood, a few tools, etc, and generally houses a pig that eats scraps and when sold provides pretty much the only cash income the farmers can expect. Other than that, they can earn only about 100 pounds a year, which is the MONTHLY average in the cities here. They eat pretty much all the rice they grow and in any event rice sells for less than pretty much anything else over here. The guide we hired said that she doesn't sell any of her rice, but sells some dried chillies, tea leaves and a pig or two. It's easy to understand why they swarm around the bus stop offering to carry your bags for cash!

All this means that there are a lot of traditional skills to be seen there. They make what they can't afford to buy. They use pieces of bamboo to channel water around from the millions of streams to the rice fields, and when I wanted to shorten my bamboo walking stick (made with my trusty mora ;) ) , the first person we asked had a billhook for us to borrow, and our guide did it for us in three seconds flat. Incidentally, I've yet to see longer machete-type knives in china. Whilst we were walking she kept pulling the heads off edible plants to make her dinner, and the restaurants all sell wild vegetable dishes. A lot of the houses don't even have glass in the windows, and they used open fires that sent smoke up and out between the tiles of the roof. No chimney! The traditional dress of embroidered jackets and massive silver ear rings that stretch the ears, is still in use, but it's also good to hear that plenty of their kids are going to university. I saw a couple of old guys wearing the woven natural fibre rain capes, but unfortunately only from a bus so I couldn't get a picture. However, I've been told I can get one to keep in a few weeks when I go to my wife's home town.

I could talk about it all day, but I'll leave it there for now. Here are a few links to photos of the place:

house and terraces:
http://www.yangshuo.chinabackpacker.com/longsheng.htm
houses:
http://club.news.sohu.com/read-guanxizh-1663-0-6.html
terraces and houses:
http://www.kam-tai.org/culture/zhuang/scenery/longshenglongjititian.htm
bamboo raft, river, little mountains. You can't see much of the raft, but it's really just half a dozen pieces of 6-8 inch diameter bamboo bent a bit at the ends and bound together:
http://www.kakura.jp/hw/photos/2004-02/01874s_2004-02-14_xingping.jpg
fishing on rafts with cormorants:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/China/Guanxi/fishing/
 

philaw

Settler
Nov 27, 2004
571
47
42
Hull, East Yorkshire, UK.
I'm back! I've just had a fortnight or so in the far north of yunnan province in south west china. The area borders Tibet, and most of the people in the area are Tibetan: They look Tibetan, dress Tibetan, speak Tibetan (kinda sounds like arabic to me) and carry big Tibetan knives on their belts.

It's a fascinating area to be in because so much of their lifestyle has been preserved by remoteness from the rest of China. Even now, if you don't fly it takes 15 hours by bus to get to the nearest train station in the provincial capital! I'd never been to high altitude before (3000-4500m), and it was interesting to note stuff like how you get tired very easily for the first few days, and how my bottle of alcohol hand sanitiser burst open when our bus went up to 4500m!

The thing you'll like best of all, though, is the village that I went to up there called yubeng. Amazingly, to this day it's only accessible by foot or by horse, via a five hour trek over a mountain. It's at about 3200m, at the foot of meilixueshan (meili snow mountain), which is a 6900m, glacier-covered monster.

Our guesthouse was owned by the richest guy in the village, and the guys we stayed with in the next room all got insect bites from their beds. The toilet is just a shed on stilts with holes in the floor. The guy's house was traditional tibetan, like all the houses there; all mud walls two feet thick and a framework of whole pine trees. The animals lived downstairs to help cope with the -20c winters and up in his loft/ barn we found loads of un-threshed wheat, potatos, and wooden saddles for yaks. The inside was brightly painted like a temple, but had no plumbing whatsoever. They have a little electricity from a small hydroelectric power thing, but to run the TV you need to switch off the lights. Hygiene there was a joke. My wife saw the boss wipe his nose, then wipe his two hands together, then take a filthy cloth and wipe the inside of a couple of bowls. She didn't dare tell us. They didn't have any meat for us to eat, either, because everything is brought over the mountain by horse. I guess the pigs and chickens there were just enough for themselves. From the terrace outside our room we could look up on mei li snow mountain, which is the reason everyone goes there. The thing is 6900m tall, the place we stayed at was about 3200m up. You literally sit there and watch the clouds going by, hoping to get a glimpse of the top (which we didn't). What you can see is forests and a couple of little glaciers. On the second day there we walked throught the forest along a melt-water river for a couple of hours up to the glacier and a sacred buddhist waterfall right next to it. When we got back we found that a nine year old girl in our group had been bitten by a leech. A tibetan local staying in the same place took a bite, too, so my first aid kit is a little depleted of iodine, plasters and bandages! After all that climbing, though, the highest point we got to was 4500m, in the bus, on the way there.

Even in the towns in this area, everyone uses wood stoves because it's the only readily accessible fuel that's not too expensive. The rising numbers of tourists have made a positive difference to people's income in some villages, because they take people up the mountain paths on their horses. Interestingly, villagers are making cash now from picking wild mushrooms that make their way to Japan. The mushrooms may be tasty, but my own preference is for fried, dried, smoked yak meat, with local pan-cooked bread and butter tea :D There are all kinds of other things there that are noteworthy, like how some Tibetan men share a wife to avoid breaking up the family, and that they still do sky and river burials (some kids said it involves cutting up the body and chucking it into the river, that they'd be too scared to watch, and that that's why tibetans don't eat fish). The only tibetan that I asked about it thought the beijing government is 'not bad', and said his grandma was in tibet when the chinese army came over. According to his retalling of her story, they tried to do a peaceful liberation and 'only killed really bad people'. The guy was a driver and had a picture of the very same car in lhasa, after driving six days to get there.

I picked up a traditional Tibetan knife for about four quid after I saw that the locals really do use them dailly. They have a full tang, and are peened over or bolted at the end, and the blades are some kind of high carbon steel. The main distinguishing feature is the silver/ tin sheath with wooden inserts. The sheaths are all decorated with patterns kinda hammered onto them with a little tool like a nail. My vocabulary totally deserted me just there, but you get the idea. I'll try to get pics up sometime.

All in all, the trip put a whole lot of ideas into my head. Pub/ cafe owners in tourist areas there that signed contracts a year ago, before it got busy, said they're paying 250 quid a YEAR in rent for the beautiful wooden buildings. Put that together with the fact that you can buy a horse for 200, the wood stoves, the mountain walks, etc, and I'm tempted to go and stay out there for a while. I could get a little place, fit the stove, get a few chickens, a yak or two...
 

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