Cherokee wisdom

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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,000
4,653
S. Lanarkshire
No, I shan't ban you.
You have as much right to your say as Mike does and I would rather that the argument became a balanced one rather than a one sided rant.

It might be to the good though if the two main protagonists kept a low profile for a bit and let other folks try to restore a balanced view.

Atb,
Toddy
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,000
4,653
S. Lanarkshire
I presume the pow wow then is a bit like our cringe worthy televised Hogmanays :rolleyes: :eek:
The real ones are quieter, more family based, happier and not fake hyped.

cheers,
Toddy
 

Wilderbeast

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 9, 2008
2,036
9
32
Essex-Cardiff
good and bad can be picked out of almost every situation and event.....however not the point of this thread I feel, inspiring wisdom is inspiring wisdom. It doesn't matter who said it, where they said it or how they said it. The wisdom quoted was onee I hadn't heard before and I thouroghly enjoyed reading something so profound.

and please remember that EVERYONE, good or bad does things that they are not proud of. Instead of dredging up the dirt in the lake, look at the clear water, it's easier to see that way........
 

gzornenplat

Forager
Jan 21, 2009
207
0
Surrey
good and bad can be picked out of almost every situation and event.....however not the point of this thread I feel, inspiring wisdom is inspiring wisdom. It doesn't matter who said it, where they said it or how they said it. The wisdom quoted was onee I hadn't heard before and I thouroghly enjoyed reading something so profound.

and please remember that EVERYONE, good or bad does things that they are not proud of. Instead of dredging up the dirt in the lake, look at the clear water, it's easier to see that way........

Full circle. We are back to the start and someone who is recommending feeding the good wolf

:)
 

Arth

Nomad
Sep 27, 2007
289
0
51
west sussex
Humans are humans at the end of the day. I guess we could sword fight about who did what in the pass, but what we should be doing is building a better future.
 

falcon

Full Member
Aug 27, 2004
1,211
33
Shropshire
Great quote ain't it...? JP's been using that as his signature for a while now. Not sure about the argument which has been raging BUT I reckon it contains a number of profound truths about human emotions, behavoiur and attitudes which often come into play in our behaviour towards each other. Both in real life and on forums......;)
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,000
4,653
S. Lanarkshire
This really is off topic, but the conversation so far invites the comparisons.

Nomadic versus a agrarian lifestyle ?

The nomads must have looked on in appalled horror as the first farmers they encountered lived season in and out among their own waste, grew their crops in it, entirely changed the ecosystem to suit their crops and grazing animals.

Now the agrarians scorn the nomads habits of moving on and letting nature take care of the waste, the grazing, the seasonal exploitation of an area and it's fauna.

Funny old world, isn't it ?

cheers,
Toddy
 

Aaron

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2003
570
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42
Oxford/Gloucs border
This really is off topic, but the conversation so far invites the comparisons.

Now the agrarians scorn the nomads habits of moving on and letting nature take care of the waste, the grazing, the seasonal exploitation of an area and it's fauna.

cheers,
Toddy

That's why I dont like gypsies Toddy, they 'move on', leaving us to take care of their waste (both human and trade), having seasonally 'exploited' the local area of anything valuable :lmao:
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,000
4,653
S. Lanarkshire
It is a different issue in an overcrowded island, isn't it ? :rolleyes: Especially in this day and age of non biodegradeable products.

Very different in the past, and the agrarian lifestyle is less than 10,000 years of human history, and much less than that for most of the world to adopt.

I wonder how those people who saw the changes reacted ? Did they feed their wolves, tame them to become sheepdogs or just exterminate them as predators of their herds ?

Funny turn this conversation has taken.

cheers,
Toddy
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Only when the last tree has been cut down;
Only when the last river has been poisoned;
Only when the last fish has been caught;
Only then will you find that re-iterating well used quotes did nothing to make the world a better place.

Life is too short for arguements.
 

jojo

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 16, 2006
2,630
4
England's most easterly point
One is Evil. It is anger, envious, jealous, sorrowful, regretful, greedy, arrogant, self-pitying. It’s full of guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.
The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”

We could almost see this thread as an example of this saying. It does not really matter whether this is attributed to an old Cherokee man, a Buddhist monk, or a uneducated chimpanzee using a computer for the first time. What matter, to my way on thinking anyway, is the content. It's that we do have a choice, and that perhaps, some choices are better than others. The saying doesn't tell us what our choice should be, it shows us the alternatives.

We all have a tendency to think that it's the "others" who are evil, when really we all have skeletons in our cupboard. Mind you, skeletons in some cupboards are either bigger or more numerous. Look at the nazi's cupboard.

The problems with history books, is that the victors write them. They only generally tell you what the victors want you to hear, that the skeletons in the vanquished cupboards were so big that the victors had no alternative but to wipe them out.

I have sympathy for native people, be they from America, Canada, the Kalahari desert, or the true Gypsy. They tend to get persecuted, because they are different from the"norm" accused of all sorts of things to justify their persecution. And their culture inevitably suffer, gets watered down, disappears. Then, later, the victors start to attribute the good bits to themselves!

Native American culture belong to the Native Americans. The Bushman's culture belongs to the Bushmen. Perhaps what we need to do, is to look at what our own cultures were before the greed of industrialization and the money men took over and revive that.

Oh, and forgot that bit: Humanity belongs to all of us, as a right, but also as a duty.

Ok.....ramble over.....:D
 

Mike Benis

Tenderfoot
Feb 8, 2008
53
0
England
There are many accounts of Indians hunting buffalo just to cut out the tongues for a feast! Leaving the rest for the scavengers.

get dozens of them to run over a cliff. Then only use the best parts from a handful of those dead buffalo.

Can you cite the sources of any of these many accounts?

That's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know.

Mike B
 

Tor helge

Settler
May 23, 2005
739
44
55
Northern Norway
www.torbygjordet.com
We could almost see this thread as an example of this saying. It does not really matter whether this is attributed to an old Cherokee man, a Buddhist monk, or a uneducated chimpanzee using a computer for the first time. What matter, to my way on thinking anyway, is the content. It's that we do have a choice, and that perhaps, some choices are better than others. The saying doesn't tell us what our choice should be, it shows us the alternatives.

We all have a tendency to think that it's the "others" who are evil, when really we all have skeletons in our cupboard. Mind you, skeletons in some cupboards are either bigger or more numerous. Look at the nazi's cupboard.

The problems with history books, is that the victors write them. They only generally tell you what the victors want you to hear, that the skeletons in the vanquished cupboards were so big that the victors had no alternative but to wipe them out.

I have sympathy for native people, be they from America, Canada, the Kalahari desert, or the true Gypsy. They tend to get persecuted, because they are different from the"norm" accused of all sorts of things to justify their persecution. And their culture inevitably suffer, gets watered down, disappears. Then, later, the victors start to attribute the good bits to themselves!

Native American culture belong to the Native Americans. The Bushman's culture belongs to the Bushmen. Perhaps what we need to do, is to look at what our own cultures were before the greed of industrialization and the money men took over and revive that.

Oh, and forgot that bit: Humanity belongs to all of us, as a right, but also as a duty.

Ok.....ramble over.....:D

Not starting a war here, but just curious. What is a true gypsy?
Isn`t gypsy a name for those who call themseves Rom/Roma? These are not native to any european country, but immigrants (in medieval times) from India.

Tor
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,000
4,653
S. Lanarkshire
Depends on which anthropological interpretation you adhere to :rolleyes:
'Out of Africa' before or after the development of Homo sapiens sapiens or the 'multi-evolutionary nexus' theory.

Tor, in the UK gypsies aren't just Rom, they are an admixture of assorted immigrants, the descendants of migratory farm workers and wandering smiths, whitesmiths, tinsmiths and the like. Nowadays with the peace camp/ eco warriors added in on the mix it's a kind of emotive subject.

cheers,
Toddy
 

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