Cherokee wisdom

[sodajoe]

Not exactly bushcraft but see what you think.


Two wolves.

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said: “My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It is anger, envious, jealous, sorrowful, regretful, greedy, arrogant, self-pitying. It’s full of guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.
The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”
The old Cherokee simply replied: “The one you feed.”

 

[Wilderbeast]

breathtaking, thankyou

 

[mittenz]

That is so amazingly profound yet so simple thanks for that!

 

[scottishwolf]

Heard the same thing only it was a bhuddist one, with two tigers fighting.

 

[Paganwolf]

Seen that before somewhere

 

[Mike Ameling]

A lot of cr*p gets attributed to the North American Indians that they never said - because it "sounds right". It happens all the time.

And the ... myth ... of them grows every year. They were simply people, not gods walking this earth. They often were just as wasteful of natural resources as everybody claims the "white man" was/is. There are many accounts of Indians hunting buffalo just to cut out the tongues for a feast! Leaving the rest for the scavengers. Those Plains Indian tribes moved their tipi camps often - because they threw their garbage just out past their tipis at the edge of the camp - and that's also where they went and relieved themselves. So after a few days the area around their camp stunk of feces and rotting food. Plus they had used up the available wood for fires, and their horses had grazed off all the grass.

The Buffalo Jump was a very common hunting method the Indians used - especially before they got horses from those evil "White men". Stampede a herd of buffalo to get dozens of them to run over a cliff. Then only use the best parts from a handful of those dead buffalo. (There were no domesticated horses in North America before they were brought over by Europeans in the 1500's and 1600's.)

Not exactly that ... mythical image ... everybody attributes to them. Yes, when game was hard to find, they would use "every part of the animal except the squeal". But when it was plentiful, they wasted just like man in every other culture on this earth.

But the ... myth ... sounds better. History tells a far different tale.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Draven]

A lot of cr*p gets attributed to the North American Indians that they never said - because it "sounds right". It happens all the time.

And the ... myth ... of them grows every year. They were simply people, not gods walking this earth. They often were just as wasteful of natural resources as everybody claims the "white man" was/is. There are many accounts of Indians hunting buffalo just to cut out the tongues for a feast! Leaving the rest for the scavengers. Those Plains Indian tribes moved their tipi camps often - because they threw their garbage just out past their tipis at the edge of the camp - and that's also where they went and relieved themselves. So after a few days the area around their camp stunk of feces and rotting food. Plus they had used up the available wood for fires, and their horses had grazed off all the grass.

The Buffalo Jump was a very common hunting method the Indians used - especially before they got horses from those evil "White men". Stampede a herd of buffalo to get dozens of them to run over a cliff. Then only use the best parts from a handful of those dead buffalo. (There were no domesticated horses in North America before they were brought over by Europeans in the 1500's and 1600's.)

Not exactly that ... mythical image ... everybody attributes to them. Yes, when game was hard to find, they would use "every part of the animal except the squeal". But when it was plentiful, they wasted just like man in every other culture on this earth.

But the ... myth ... sounds better. History tells a far different tale.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

Tend to agree here... you get lots of stuff bandied about as being NA just cause you can imagine some stoic fella sitting round a campfire and saying it. I like a lot of NA crafts and culture out of interest and (like many others) just 'cause it's somewhat exotic and unknown to us. Doesn't make the quote any less "profound", mind! I think they do have a step up on a lot of Europeans (well, folk of European descent) just because their culture seems to be held dearer to them then ours to us.

For the record, don't watch the movie Pathfinder (2007 movie) - portrays the NAs (well, Native Canadians really) as fun-loving hippies and the Northern Europeans as savage, filthy, black-haired, horned-helmet wearing barbarians.

 

[sam_acw]

DOn't watch that film - watch the original about the Sami!

 

[gzornenplat]

I think they do have a step up on a lot of Europeans (well, folk of European descent) just because their culture seems to be held dearer to them then ours to us.

If our culture was in danger of being wiped out, we'd try to hold on to it too. Or set up shop and sell Chinese-made 'Genuine Traditional Craft' objects. The rougher it is, the more 'authentic' it is.

 

[Draven]

DOn't watch that film - watch the original about the Sami!

I intend to at some point

gzornenplat - It is in danger. Not as much, and not in the same way, but it's certainly starting to fade..

 

[gregorach]

It is in danger. Not as much, and not in the same way, but it's certainly starting to fade..

Cultures change over time - that's simply inevitable, and perfectly normal. It's not quite the same as having a bunch of guys show up from beyond the edge of the known world with radically more sophisticated technology and declare that you've just been colonised.

 

[Tadpole]

Cultures change over time - that's simply inevitable, and perfectly normal. It's not quite the same as having a bunch of guys show up from beyond the edge of the known world with radically more sophisticated technology and declare that you've just been colonised.

Is it just me but "colonised" sound really unpleasent and rather painful

 

[sandbender]

For the record, don't watch the movie Pathfinder (2007 movie)

DOn't watch that film - watch the original about the Sami!

You mean this one...

Ofelas:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/

I watched it the other night for the first time in years, an amazing film!

This is from the same director and describes a cultures clash between Sami and the Norwegian incomers...

Kautokeino-opprøret:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479937/

This is pretty good too, and just to keep things on topic it has a bit of a spiritual twist at the end...

Kukushka:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308476/

 

[Draven]

Cultures change over time - that's simply inevitable, and perfectly normal. It's not quite the same as having a bunch of guys show up from beyond the edge of the known world with radically more sophisticated technology and declare that you've just been colonised.

I started a reply, but it really got too opinionated for forum talk so I'll just leave it I do agree that it's not the same - but that's about the extent of my agreement.

Atb
Pete

 

[sodajoe]

I agree in parts, I was over at a Pow Wow in Canada in September and it was about as tacky as it gets. However, there's widom to be plucked from all cultures.

That's not why I'm replying, I'm replying because I think your signature is funny as hell

A lot of cr*p gets attributed to the North American Indians that they never said - because it "sounds right". It happens all the time.

And the ... myth ... of them grows every year. They were simply people, not gods walking this earth. They often were just as wasteful of natural resources as everybody claims the "white man" was/is. There are many accounts of Indians hunting buffalo just to cut out the tongues for a feast! Leaving the rest for the scavengers. Those Plains Indian tribes moved their tipi camps often - because they threw their garbage just out past their tipis at the edge of the camp - and that's also where they went and relieved themselves. So after a few days the area around their camp stunk of feces and rotting food. Plus they had used up the available wood for fires, and their horses had grazed off all the grass.

The Buffalo Jump was a very common hunting method the Indians used - especially before they got horses from those evil "White men". Stampede a herd of buffalo to get dozens of them to run over a cliff. Then only use the best parts from a handful of those dead buffalo. (There were no domesticated horses in North America before they were brought over by Europeans in the 1500's and 1600's.)

Not exactly that ... mythical image ... everybody attributes to them. Yes, when game was hard to find, they would use "every part of the animal except the squeal". But when it was plentiful, they wasted just like man in every other culture on this earth.

But the ... myth ... sounds better. History tells a far different tale.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Mike Ameling]

Yeah, that "Viking" movie called Pathfinder was a classic hollyweird joke. The one about the Sami was much much better.

But there at least one, if not 2, other movies also called Pathfinder. One or both are based upon Washington Irving's writings about Natty Bumpo (Hawkeye) and life in North America during the French and Indian War - 1750's and 1760's. (Kind of like the Last of the Mohicans movie)


One thing to remember about all those North American Indian tribes (plus Central and South American). Every tribe TOOK the land they consider their "homeland" from another Indian tribe who considered it their "homeland" before that. And those took it from some other tribe before them. And mostly by FORCE. So all those Indian tribes in North America were just like all the people in Europe (and everywhere else in the world) - who swapped land/territory back and forth many many times over the centuries.

So they all knew and had their own history of conquest/colonization before Europeans came to North America. The "whites" were just another "tribe" moving in - following a long established practice in North America.

There is no ... high moral ground ... for any of them. Simple cold facts. They all have "blood on their hands" handed down from their ancestors.

But saying this is considered blaspheming! It contradicts the ... myth ... of the idyllic life style they want people to believe they led. But then, reality bites!

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Tengu]

Dang you, Mike, it was J Fenimore Cooper wrote `the last of the Mohicians`

I know this because someone gave me a copy just this morning.

(No, I have not read it yet)

But Washington Irvings the best US writer, methinks.

---------

That sounds more of a buddhist quote than a Native american one, to my hunch.

Im trying to remember though, wasnt there a tribe who when they came into contact with organised literate people started to develop there own way of doing things, even up to their own script?? Im pretty much sure I read this once, I think their name did begin with a `C`

 

[Mike Ameling]

Cooper? Irving? At least I was in the right ballpark. My advancing stages of CRS are catching up on me. (CRS - can't remember sh*t)

The Cherokee eventually developed their own written language. And a Dictionary of it exists somewhere on the web. They used the regular "English" alphabet and definitions, but put to their own words. And then figured out how they wanted to spell them. The list of words was never very extensive, but you did end up with a working language for most everyday stuff.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Tadpole]

But Washington Irvings the best US writer, methinks.

Washington Irving, the man whose convinced the modern world that everyone before Columbus time thought the world was flat

 

[tsitenha]

Mike A, its nice to see that the "Only good Indian is a dead Indian" attitude still lives.
I guess that we are the only minority that is still OK to trash up and demean.

Jumps were an effective way to get your meat for the season for a tribe when we had no horses, the whole tribe would take part and spend the next while rendering the buffalo, meat, hides bones and all, minimal waste, maximum use.
Not like shooting them by the thousands (millions all told) to give entertainment to rail passengers and to control the food, shelters source of the "plains Indians" ultimately starving them into submission and a slow death, under the guise of buffalo blankets, bone ash fertilizer, et all.
The use of diseased blankets and trinkets with all of the then know pathogens to commit genocide on peoples that had received you. Mike your a firecracker aren't you?
Easy to tell yarns with your own slant, twist things around.
As far as the POW WOW goers we give you what you expect, you don't get invited to our community gatherings guess why?
I'm done with you. BAN ME