Chain saw

[Goatboy]

Red,

I totally agree with your right to do as you please on your land as long as it doesn't affect others. It's a freedom I would fight for you for.

As you say as long as it doesn't affect others. I was maybe a bit sweeping when I said folk should be licenced. I definitely think they should be for work and commercial gain. There is an argument that your use of pesticides and heavy equipment could affect others either through contamination/run-off and or some-one being endangered coming in to rescue you if you get into a bad situation /have an accident. But we're getting into semantics and politics there and that'll just cause an argument that's not allowed. So I withdraw my statement about forcing licences.

I do feel that that although you've been using them for years you do seem to have a natural bent for it where-as the OP was saying they didn't have a clue. A chainsaw is a hugely powerful tool and things can happen very very fast, it'll slice through (mincing as it goes) and or kicking back more quickly than most will be able to react too. The consequences can be fatal or at least devastating. Unable to work, trauma to victim and family, not able to pay bills. Is it worth it for the sake of a fraction of the cost of the saw to equip oneself with the proper PPE? OK a short training course isn't cheap, but once someone has the training (professional or otherwise) it's there and the recipient no longer needs to renew it if not for commercial gain?

I just feel having witnessed folk without your skill (and luck) recommending to a novice to just go out and get one willy-nilly is remiss (to me) and especially as you are so highly thought of.

I'm not saying any of it as an attack and we all have our opinions and rights to air them, I was just concerned for the prospective buyer.

Look forward to more posts from us all, I always enjoy reading yours.

ATB,
Colin.

 

[British Red]

I just feel having witnessed folk without your skill (and luck) recommending to a novice to just go out and get one willy-nilly is remiss (to me) and especially as you are so highly thought of.

But that's not what I said Colin what I said in this thread was

Get boots, over trousers and a helmet. Get a saw bench for your wood.

What I said in my thread on firewood

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115036

was

I believe the best place to learn this is with hands on instructions on a proper course

First up, I am going to use a chainsaw and other cutting gear. For me that means suiting up with PPE. Chainsaw accidents without protection are the kind of mistakes you only make once, so lets not mess about with this!

I'm all in favour of safety gear, training and common sense - just not over regulation!

As I have said on many other "lets ban / licence" it discussions, there are many things that, if we are really in favour of saving lives, we should regulate first.

 

[Goatboy]

But that's not what I said Colin what I said in this thread was




What I said in my thread on firewood

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115036

was





I'm all in favour of safety gear, training and common sense - just not over regulation!

As I have said on many other "lets ban / licence" it discussions, there are many things that, if we are really in favour of saving lives, we should regulate first.

Your right I amalgamated too many replies in mine. Sorry for misquotation. My bad, it was others who inferred that it was fine to just wear steel toe caps and jeans. I do still hope that we would all wear PPE and newcomers get some instruction for our individual safety.

I apologise Red, if it's one thing I should've remembered it's to read who said what. Hope you take no offence?

Colin.

 

[British Red]

None at all Colin - its a good and polite discussion - we can disagree (or agree in this case)

I strongly believe that not only should people be self reliant, but that we should encourage such an attitude, rather than put stumbling blocks in their way. I suspect that regulation and licensing rarely works to be honest - do you think the regulation of "knife sellers" in Scotland has prevented a single stabbing for example?

I can accept that people should have qualifications to operate a professional operation - but that's about protecting customers and employees rather than operators in my book. Lets face it, if we look at your stats above - the vast majority of injuries and fatalities happen to professional, not personal, chainsaw users. Now I could be silly and claim that this proves training is a bad thing! The reality may well be though that "familiarity breeds contempt" - and also that professionals tackle riskier and more complex jobs. The truth is though that we are looking at a tiny number of fatalities in "amateur" users - more people are killed by cows

 

[Stringmaker]

This is an interesting thread on many levels, covering as it does the issues of personal choice and responsibility versus mandatory legislation.

I have never used a chainsaw but I do get involved with others who do (and have their tickets). I limit myself to stacking cut logs after they have done the buzzy stuff.

I could, in theory learn the basics from one of my qualified friends but if I did then I would certainly kit up properly through personal choice.

I would echo what others have said to the OP; get some proper instruction for starters and make your own decision as to PPE. To use none would not be sensible as a complete beginner.

 

[Stringmaker]

None at all Colin - its a good and polite discussion - we can disagree (or agree in this case)

Lets face it, if we look at your stats above - the vast majority of injuries and fatalities happen to professional, not personal, chainsaw users. Now I could be silly and claim that this proves training is a bad thing! The reality may well be though that "familiarity breeds contempt" - and also that professionals tackle riskier and more complex jobs. The truth is though that we are looking at a tiny number of fatalities in "amateur" users - more people are killed by cows

Another interpretation is that the stats merely confirm what you would expect; professional users are simply exposed to way more "cutting hours" and therefore to proportionately more likelihood of an injury.

Licence cows I say!

 

[British Red]

Another interpretation is that the stats merely confirm what you would expect; professional users are simply exposed to way more "cutting hours" and therefore to proportionately more likelihood of an injury.

Could be - certainly not true around here where every farmer and smallholder runs a saw - but I accept that this is not a typical area. When you consider the total number of saws sold - heck even B&Q sells saws - do you think that there are 9 times the number of cutting hours done by professionals than non professionals? That seems unlikely to me - its all down to the methodology employed of course and what are counted as injuries and how the stats are put together

 

[horsevad]

PPE might save an individual from severe consequences in a SMALL accident.

BIG accidents are only avoided through prudence and careful planning.



If you are felling the trees yourself, some instruction, whether from courses or in the form of books/instruction videos, wood be quite a good idea.


Some trees grow under tremendous internal pressure, and it just takes a small mistake from the saw-operator to unleash. PPE are seldom of any use in such circumstances.

One of these scenarios is known as the "barber-chair". I belive the same terminology is used in english-speaking context.

There is a good youtube-video showing the process, although it seem to happen somewhat slower than it often does in real-time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YAf61zz5VU

The operator was lucky and quite skilled too - he moved back the instance he heard the crack - a few inches closer and that could very probably had been his last tree. Not only do the pieces of wood have a potential for blunt tramua, the shards can also be very sharp - sharp enough to impale a person.

Sometimes the internal pressure in the tree are lateral instead of horisontal. I have personally had a tree jump and rotate a full turn before it fall.

Be careful!

//Kim Horsevad

 

[Stringmaker]

Sometimes the internal pressure in the tree are lateral instead of horisontal. I have personally had a tree jump and rotate a full turn before it fall.

Be careful!

//Kim Horsevad

That is exactly what happened to a friend of mine; he has been off work for almost a year with a large bone gap in his lower leg. PPE made no difference to his injury.

 

[horsevad]

Found an even better video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBhlY0FRD9I


//Kim Horsevad

 

[Two Socks]

Found an even better video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBhlY0FRD9I

Wow, that would have taken me off guard.

 

[Wayne]

Shame the video doesn't show the saw cut in the stump and the aspect of the tree before felling.

Certainly a good example of why you have your escape routes prepped before you touch the tree.

A tad beyond the requirements of the OP but interesting never the less.

 

[MSkiba]

To the OP. I think the answer to your question depends on how much wood you want to cut. There is firewood, and there is firewood. Unsure why everyone is suddenly posting statistics and video's of chainsaw accidents. I could also post accidents where people choke on spoons or break a leg just walking down a street. Be as safe as you can, use common sense.

 

[stuey]

A tad beyond the requirements of the OP

I suspect the videos and talk of Barbers' chairing have resulted from the difference in terminology between the UK and many other countries.

Logging in the US = Forestry or Woodland Contracting in the UK

Logging in the UK = cutting logs up into fire sized lumps.

That last video looked a bit tasty mind you!!

 

[horsevad]

I suspect the videos and talk of Barbers' chairing have resulted from the difference in terminology between the UK and many other countries.

Logging in the US = Forestry or Woodland Contracting in the UK

Logging in the UK = cutting logs up into fire sized lumps.

That last video looked a bit tasty mind you!!

Hi, I am not from US - I am from Denmark...

I understood the OP as he were about to start cutting wood himself. Over here this process normally starts by felling the tree in question.

If you have another procedure in the UK i sincerely apologise for the derailment!

//Kim Horsevad

 

[stuey]

To the OP. I think the answer to your question depends on how much wood you want to cut. There is firewood, and there is firewood. Be as safe as you can, use common sense.

Quantity of firewood is irrespective in this instance surely?
The OP indicated his preference to use a chainsaw.
By his own admission he admits he has no clue.
If he has no clue, common sense is worthless as the OP will not be aware of the risks posed by a chainsaw therefore cannot employ common sense to protect himself.

Hence why so many of us have advised some kind of training or familiarisation.

 

[stuey]

Hi, I am not from US - I am from Denmark...

I understood the OP as he were about to start cutting wood himself. Over here this process normally starts by felling the tree in question.

If you have another procedure in the UK i sincerely apologise for the derailment!

//Kim Horsevad

Hej Kim,

No problem My ex was Danish and I know many of her relatives used US terms when it came to tree and wood related stuff hence my reference to US terms.

Sorry.

Over here, unless you have your own patch of woodland, most firewood comes either in cord lengths, cut into lumps ready for splitting or ready cut and split.

Cracking videos though!!

Hej Hej,

Stuart

 

[Goatboy]

I just felt I had a responsibility when posting to a novice on a public forum tom be as safe as possible. It's like before I picked up a gun for the first time as a kid, I was lectured and shown repeatedly on safety. Mine and others. But ultimately yes safety was in my hands - or I'd be off the shoot. In later life taking out clients I was horrified at the carte blanche attitudes some nationalities had and was more than happy to turn them away. I don't like staring down a barrel. We do have traditions here for promoting safety. A couple of years ago while 'round at a friends he urged me t watch an American program about a bunch of crazy timber harvesters ( I know these programs are sensationalised) who took all sorts of safety cuts and indeed were scarred as a result. My pal said it was more entertaining to watch me watch with an horrified gape. We are all ultimately responsible, while learning I turned down jobs 'till I knew what I was doing, I also know that I've made some bad choices, but I do try not to then be a burden on society by relying on the likes of the NHS and so the tax payer by my will to do as I please, that would be wrong of me. I think BR and I are more in tune than a lot may think, we just discuss from differing view points but with a lot of middle ground.

 

[Stringmaker]

One question nobody has asked the OP:

Are you going to be cutting down trees or just cutting felled logs?

Both have the potential for injury of course but one more than the other?

 

[MSkiba]

Quantity of firewood is irrespective in this instance surely?
The OP indicated his preference to use a chainsaw.
By his own admission he admits he has no clue.
If he has no clue, common sense is worthless as the OP will not be aware of the risks posed by a chainsaw therefore cannot employ common sense to protect himself.

Hence why so many of us have advised some kind of training or familiarisation.

OP asked if he should even get a chainsaw to cut firewood, if so, which one. Thus, if he is only going to light a fire once a month, there is no need for a chainsaw. if he is going to have a fire 24/7, he should get one, and a good one, along with safety gear and training. How can we be advising him if he should use a chain saw, and which type, if we don't even know how much wood he has to process? And he can employ common sense if he has no clue, common sense would be to get training of some sort surely, he is seeking advise here and not just jumping in, that's common sense too.

So back to topic, how much wood are you planning on cutting, because if its just a small amount, I would stick to a saw and axe.