Catapult - what am I doing wrong?!

[JasonStonier]

Hi all, new member here.

For a while I have been air rifle hunting with a fair success rate - about 4 out of 5 at 20 metres shooting pigeons for the freezer. I decided to switch to catapult because it is more...I don't know...simple and earthy I guess. Plus I wanted to teach my 5-year-old to hunt small game and wasn't about to give him a pellet gun.

So after playing with a cheap flea market wrist-brace catty with surgical bands to get the feel of it, I bought a Black Widow and spent the last two months learning to shoot it. I can hit a coke can every time at ten metres, a shotgun cartridge about half the time and a clothes peg about 1 in 3. I can hit the coke can more than half the time at 20 metres. My horizontal grouping is about an inch at ten metres, my vertical about 2 inches.

This is with 8mm steel bearings. A few times I have but a ball straight through the coke can at ten metres.

So my question is: why can't I kill a pigeon with it???

This week I decided I was accurate enough to try hunting, and I have hit three pigeons in the breast at ten metres without a kill. I hate to maim, so I would love some advice about where I am goin wrong.

I am currently resident in South Africa and can't get hold of lead balls and haven't found a cheap supplier of hex nuts. Bearings are easier to get.

Thanks.

 

[Seoras]

I am not a catty user myself but found a good article for you on Dryads site.

http://www.dryadbushcraft.co.uk/bushcraft-how-to/the-catapult-as-a-hunting-tool

Cheers

George

 

[Goatboy]

Bird feathers absorb impact a bit like a ballistic vest, spread the shock over a large area and there's a lot of muscle on the breast too which also absorbs impact. Have seen shotgun shot bounce off geese. With you using larger ammo in a catty compared to an air rifle it spreads that impact out further still, head, neck and back shots can be more effective on birds, or smaller/edged ammo. Catty's good for small mammals (squirrels etc.) as the fur doesn't absorb so much energy.

Good luck,
GB.

 

[Dannytsg]

The main thing is ensuring you have enough impact energy to make the kill. With a standard black widow catapult I would say that with 8mm steel you are only looking about 7-8 ft/lbs of energy total. A lot of that impact in the breast area of a pigeon is absorbed by the feathers and underlying muscle tissue.

Due to the fact that you are shooting a round projectile and not one aimed at penetrating you cant rely on the penetration to hit organs and impact energy becomes more prevalnt as you are relying on blunt force trauma to bring the pigeon down.

My advice to you from an experienced catapult hunter would be to either upgrade the band set to a stronger and faster set and from there upgrade you ammo to something heavy that delivers more impact energy.

I personally hunt using either 12mm steel balls weighing 14 grams or m10 hex nuts which weigh 10 grams. My catapults consistently shoot these at around 290 FPS which gives 40ft/lbs of energy with 12mm steel balls and 28 ft/lbs of energy with m10 hex nuts.

As a basic taster here is a chart from the sling shot forum showing mass of projectile against velocity equating to actual impact imparted on target.



I hope this helps and if you want any direct info on tuning your catapult for hunting feel free to drop me a PM.

Dan

 

[fishfish]

mate theres not much i dont know about catapult hunting as a former industry leader,i can tell you that the catapult is not best suited to hunting,the weaker the catty,and those chinese wrist brace ones are,the more acurrate you need to be ie head shot only,get yourself a double theraband set of bands and fit them to the catty and you will kill stuff where ever you hit it.steel ball bearings are not good for hunting,better than nothing but lead shot of .44 cal are perfect for a 2x theraband set up.

ie w3hat dan said.

 

[forrestdweller]

but lead shot of .44 cal are perfect for a 2x theraband set up.

QUOTE]

would .42 cal be big enough?! (after LONG search i FINALLY managed to get a casting mold for sinkers so can start practising in serious now) on 5ft they are lethal on canetoads, but what about bigger and more delicious game?!

 

[Dannytsg]

but lead shot of .44 cal are perfect for a 2x theraband set up.

QUOTE]

would .42 cal be big enough?! (after LONG search i FINALLY managed to get a casting mold for sinkers so can start practising in serious now) on 5ft they are lethal on canetoads, but what about bigger and more delicious game?!

Definitely big enough but you need to ensure you are slinging them at high enough velocity to get the impact forces required to debilitate or kill.

 

[Samon]

Sounds like a power issue dude, likely due to the weak bands and small shot you're using. Years ago when I was alot younger I used to shoot a weak catty with pretty good accuracy, just for fun. But when I started trying out 'hunting' catties I found my ability to hit the target got alot more comprimised due to the strain of wrenching the bands back.

What I have learned is 'muscle memory' is the key to shooting one straight, and you need to practice to keep that muscle memory! Get yourself the best catty you can afford and get as many hours in as possible, for the sake of the critters you're pelting! It's a frustrating and difficult type of shooting, but it can be very rewarding and is a superb skill to learn!

So good luck with your trails and let us know how you get on!

 

[forrestdweller]

Definitely big enough but you need to ensure you are slinging them at high enough velocity to get the impact forces required to debilitate or kill.

so far i'm just practising- the canetoads just happened to make ideal slow-moving targets....(!! i had a toadsmasher(c.k.a. ""shovel") ready to dispatch them quickly after hitting them!! you have so see/experience the impact they have on the fauna of god's own country to understand my dislike of them...)
for hunting i need more powerful tubing or bands.


addition: yesterday afternoon after posting i realized that- more then 5years after joining- i finally reached my 250th post...

 

[santaman2000]

Lead pistol balls will work. But it's cheaper to buy a bag of 000 buckshot (either a 5 pound bag or a 25 pound bag) They're 38 caliber.

 

[ADz-1983]

Any advice on a nice starter catty and a cheap source for appropriate ammo?

I want to get some practice in so I could maybe bag a pigeon while out on travels.

 

[fishfish]

Any advice on a nice starter catty and a cheap source for appropriate ammo?

I want to get some practice in so I could maybe bag a pigeon while out on travels.

for ammo i recomend buying a mold and making your own lead shot,buy scrap lead from roofing companies,as for a catty send me a pm if you want a hunter catapult as i have a few knocking about.

 

[Snooky]

who sells the molds? I have loads of lead from sea fishing weights, used to mold my own of them so have the kit but no mold

 

[Headshed]

The main thing is ensuring you have enough impact energy to make the kill. With a standard black widow catapult I would say that with 8mm steel you are only looking about 7-8 ft/lbs of energy total. A lot of that impact in the breast area of a pigeon is absorbed by the feathers and underlying muscle tissue.

Due to the fact that you are shooting a round projectile and not one aimed at penetrating you cant rely on the penetration to hit organs and impact energy becomes more prevalnt as you are relying on blunt force trauma to bring the pigeon down.

My advice to you from an experienced catapult hunter would be to either upgrade the band set to a stronger and faster set and from there upgrade you ammo to something heavy that delivers more impact energy.

I personally hunt using either 12mm steel balls weighing 14 grams or m10 hex nuts which weigh 10 grams. My catapults consistently shoot these at around 290 FPS which gives 40ft/lbs of energy with 12mm steel balls and 28 ft/lbs of energy with m10 hex nuts.

As a basic taster here is a chart from the sling shot forum showing mass of projectile against velocity equating to actual impact imparted on target.

View attachment 19787

I hope this helps and if you want any direct info on tuning your catapult for hunting feel free to drop me a PM.

Dan

Wow, that makes a mockery of the firearms act and a legal limit of 12ft/lbs, is a licence required for a hunting catapult?

 

[Kong]

Wow, that makes a mockery of the firearms act and a legal limit of 12ft/lbs, is a licence required for a hunting catapult?

work it out. how do you police a bit of wood and some elastic?

 

[Headshed]

work it out. how do you police a bit of wood and some elastic?

A good point well made, I do wonder sometimes whether any particular thought goes into some of our law. Given I would need an FAC for a rifle generating over 12 ft/lb but not for a catapult generating over, say 30 ft/lb. I guess I'm just surprised that's all, but when you look at the projectile mass, maybe I shouldn't be.

 

[Dannytsg]

A good point well made, I do wonder sometimes whether any particular thought goes into some of our law. Given I would need an FAC for a rifle generating over 12 ft/lb but not for a catapult generating over, say 30 ft/lb. I guess I'm just surprised that's all, but when you look at the projectile mass, maybe I shouldn't be.

Unfortunately in some instances too much thought goes into the process which detracts more and more from the initial point of the legislation. The challenge though with a catapult is obtaining the accuracy needed to get the kill in the first place. An air rifle is well accurized to deliver it's small payload pretty much where you point it with minimal training, however with a catapult you need a lot of practice in order to be able to do that, so having 30+ ft/lbs of energy isn't any use unless you are proficient enough to deliver it where it counts.

 

[Headshed]

Unfortunately in some instances too much thought goes into the process which detracts more and more from the initial point of the legislation. The challenge though with a catapult is obtaining the accuracy needed to get the kill in the first place. An air rifle is well accurized to deliver it's small payload pretty much where you point it with minimal training, however with a catapult you need a lot of practice in order to be able to do that, so having 30+ ft/lbs of energy isn't any use unless you are proficient enough to deliver it where it counts.

Like the legislation regarding knives, when is it a tool or when is it a lethal weapon, which would appear to be at the discretion of which ever policeman stops you! However accuracy and kinetic energy are rather moot at ranges under 15m, depending obviously on the target. I guess I come back to my main issue, that is, how surprised I am at the energy levels you can achieve with an innocuous looking thing as a catapult. If only I'd stuck with them as a youngster, instead of getting an air rifle & then bigger weapons in the army.

 

[Dannytsg]

Like the legislation regarding knives, when is it a tool or when is it a lethal weapon, which would appear to be at the discretion of which ever policeman stops you! However accuracy and kinetic energy are rather moot at ranges under 15m, depending obviously on the target. I guess I come back to my main issue, that is, how surprised I am at the energy levels you can achieve with an innocuous looking thing as a catapult. If only I'd stuck with them as a youngster, instead of getting an air rifle & then bigger weapons in the army.

Never too old to pick one up and have some fun. I make them as a hobby and hunt with them on my permissions quite regularly. It also helps that I tend to carry one whenever I go out camping or for a day in the woods to enable me to just practice and hone my skills and it is a good way of passing the time. I particularly like to shoot at floating sticks/objects going down river as it's a more active target & acquisition practice.

 

[Headshed]

Never too old to pick one up and have some fun. I make them as a hobby and hunt with them on my permissions quite regularly. It also helps that I tend to carry one whenever I go out camping or for a day in the woods to enable me to just practice and hone my skills and it is a good way of passing the time. I particularly like to shoot at floating sticks/objects going down river as it's a more active target & acquisition practice.

Any tutorials or pictures on how to make? I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that they are more elaborate than just a forked stick and rubber bands. I could buy a black widow, but I enjoy making things more, such as rebull meths stoves.