Carbon Neutral

[Mat]

Hi everyone,

The recent debate on 4x4's over on the Transport thread mentioned about off-setting your carbon output. It got me thinking, and as a Land Rover owner myself, I thought I'd look into it a bit further.

A quick Google search, however, threw up loads of sites and even more options and I wondered if anyone here had any advice. Has anyone signed up to be Carbon Neutral, if so, with whom and why?

I was quite surprised that even when I over-estimated my yearly mileage it would only cost £14.33 a year with targetneutral.com!

I assume that going for the cheapest is not always going to be the best option?

I'd be grateful for any advice!

Maybe if we can come up some reasonable advice it could be sticky'd?

Thanks,

Mat

 

[British Red]

Mat,

Quite want to help you out but am not willing to get into this subject on this forum again.

I suggest you look into

http://www.carbonneutral.com/

Plus investigate biodiesel and other short cycle mechanisms. The important thing is to consider the total carbon footprint rather than one narrow angle (getting net emissions down is what matters).

Have a look at www.itsnoteasybeinggreen.org amongst other places for good info

Regards - Red

 

[trouble]

Hi Mat.

I've also been considering offsetting some of my carbon emissions, in this case a flight I'm taking to Nepal in the spring. I checked out some of the companies involved and was a bit surprised at the difference in both calculated carbon used for my journey (from 1.62 tonnes to 2.07 tonnes) and the offsetting cost (from £14.00 to £37.50) and there is a huge range of different projects that your money pays for. I would like to know that my money is being spent wisely and apparently there is a 'gold standard' set of criteria for offsetting projects but I can't seem to find much information on the main companies web sites as to whether their schemes are up to this level.

I'm going to research this further but I thought I would just write a swift introduction to carbon offsetting to get the thread going......

The first method employed by offsetting companies is carbon reduction through the funding of new technologies (such as alternative energy sources) and energy conservation.

The second method employed is sequestration where trees are planted in order to create a resevoir of carbon as a new forest. Such carbon resevoirs will increase in size as trees grow until a forest ecosystem reaches maturity at which point the carbon released through decomposition or harvesting equals that absorbed by regeneration or re-planting and the forest will be broadly carbon neutral.

The problem is that new carbon resevoirs such as forests (or anything built of wood) are only small, short term carbon sinks compared with the millions of years of accumulation of fossil fuel carbon deposits that we are currently burning at a furious pace. The result is that there will be a net increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide however much of the planet we put under trees.

To give you an example of the areas required I have read that we would have to re-forest an area the size of Cornwall and Devon combined to offset a single year of Britains carbon emmisions!

The main argument against offsetting is that it actually doesn't decrease overall carbon emissions by very much and that the ability of guilt-ridden citizens to pay their way out of a carbon hungry existence won't actually change their behaviour as consumers, which in the end is the only way we are going to stabilise global warming.

The main argument for offsetting is that as people start to equate carbon emitted with money spent it will help create a change in the way society views carbon emissions and lead to more substantial emission decreases through changing economic behaviour, increased efficiency and new technology.

Personnally I think the jury is out on personal carbon offsetting but as I am travelling anyway (this is my first flight for a number of years) and as I would consider myself a good little greenie the rest of the time I think I'll probably give it a try.

 

[gregorach]

About all I can say definitively about carbon offsetting is that it's very, very complex and extremely difficult to know just how effective any given option is. And as with and new market, particularly one in which is more or less impossible to tell whether you're getting value for money, there are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to take your money and tell you anything you want to hear.

 

[Lithril]

we would have to re-forest an area the size of Cornwall and Devon combined to offset a single year of Britains carbon emmisions!
.

I can't see a problem with that

 

[redcollective]

I'm really, really uneducated about this stuff however the opinion I've formed is that carbon offsetting is designed to create an economy around carbon emissions to discourage further increases in the rate of carbon emission increases (if you follow my drift). I don't know how serious an option it is for long term environmental change.

If I understand this right - just say I emit a couple of tonnes of carbon driving each year. I must plant enough trees (for example) to offset that for each year I drive, up to the point that those trees release their carbon again (lets say 15 years from now as an illustration), at which point a really should buy enough for the current year (2021), plus an extra year every year that I keep driving (cause I'm trying to lock up the carbon from the original 15 years of driving as well). Then, again, in another 15 years, I'm going to have to offset three times as much because all of those trees will have realeased their carbon again? Does that make sense?

So the key is offset using the longest living trees money can buy? I know that's probably a gross oversimplification but these carbon offset websites give you the impression it is just a matter of setting up a direct debit or handing over a credit card and everything's solved!

 

[Montivagus]

Carbon neutral is a scam. It's run by people looking to feather their own pockets on the credulity and bad conciences of others who would like to think that by paying £20 quid a year they can race around the countryside in their 4by4s without harming the environment.
You will be carbon neutral when your dead and rotted...sorry sounds harsh but it's true!

 

[Mat]

Thanks for your replies everyone - some more stuff for me to chew over!

Red - I don't blame you for not wanting to get involved but thanks for the weblink anyway.

Trouble - Great info, thanks very much. I think your post contained as much info as 2 hours worth of web surfing last night! Fantastic and thanks again.

Redcollective - Good point(s). It hadn't occured to me that you would need to keep planting year on year and that the real benefits don't start until much later on!

Montivagus - Not sure it's a scam but I know what you mean! I'm not trying to pay my way out, but I'd like to think I'm making a small difference by at least investigating the options and maybe making a contribution towards off setting my CO2 emmissions.

I do try to be as 'green' as possible. I ride my bike to work once a week, I turn off lights when I got out the room, I use the stairs at work, I've turned my heating down, I re-cycle loads (inc waste food, bones and all!) and we've tried to make our house as thermally efficient as we can afford (double glazing, loft insulation etc).

But I still feel guilty! I think what I'll do is find a company that can use my contribution to plant more trees as well as research new technologies. I don't have a huge amount of disposable income so that seems like a good compromise and it's better than doing nothing.

Mat

 

[redflex]

the bottom line is less output more input (less emmissions more trees)

I used to use my car 7 days a week doing miles, since moving i now only use the car once every 2 weeks.

As a bonus I found that I am now lossing weight myself so cant be bad, feel better for it in many ways.

 

[dave k]

I used to be able to cycle to work and it was very nice, having an 8-15 mile round-trip every day.. unfornatually my work is very often spread out across the country - currently I'm based out of Warwick.. Luckily I do get to `work from home` for 3 days a week, which means I can limit my travelling to only one return journey once a week which I have a diesel car for.

The problem I find is that my choice of career limits where I can work. It's all very well saying it's my choice, but I don't have much of a chance to re-train, as I've been working in my field for over 9 years and I've got a nice career out of it. It's either spend 4.5 hours a day on the train to london or have to commute once a week 230 miles..

I'm sort of doomed if I do, doomed if I don't.

 

[Oakleaf]

Recently completed an installer course with one of the Solar Heating suppliers and have a required interest in all things renewable as main home has no mains services.

The overwhelimg and extremely sad impression left from trawling the internet as part of my ongoing research and setting up own courses is that the Environmental issue has been squarely hijacked by the marketeers.

I found few outright lies, but lots of semi-truthful statements - whose sole purpose was to induce separation of cash.

I think therein is a possible explanation for the inconsistencies that crop up across this whole topic.

Kind of saddens the heart that potentially noble and worthwhile intentions have to wade through such a minefield. But such is as it ever was.

At risk of mushy bit, just one of the reason so glad to have this forum around - shows there are things to keep faith in.

 

[Fluxus]

It is a fact that many of these tree planting schemes are if not scams, very cynical marketing ploys to part folks with their cash whilst not even having to verify that they have planted any additional trees. Those that do have their claims verified usually only contribute a fraction of what they charge you to the actual planting. Its a dodgy business for all the reasons Trouble points out and more.

A really good critique of the whole carbon credit business can be read here:
New internationalist

Here is another one - though primarily concerned with overseas schemes:
Sinkwatch

A bit of guerilla gardening in your own neighbourhood might cut out the middle man and give us all a bit of benefit though.