Carbon Monoxide tent deaths. Can we do something positive?

[Andy BB]

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Originally Posted by Andy BB
.....Anyone with half a brain should be aware that things like heaters in caravans should be protected by CO monitors, which you should test......

is this actually a serious statement or are you just trying to cause controversy?

?? What - people taking responsibility for their own equipment? Heavens above, why on earth would I do that? Thats The Government's job, surely.....​

I would have suggested that they get the heaters checked regularly as well, but didn't want to step too far into the realms of fantasy.

 

[sasquatch]

Maybe they should only allow campers who have at least one member of the party who are Trained and Qualified


Camping Health and Safety Trained Certificate a basic 2 day course £500 valid 5 yrs


and does the Required

1/2 day course at the campsite to cover site specific hazards £50 valid 3 yrs


lots of dangerous things are only allowed after you have been trained and tested

this sort of thing would cover the camp site

and open up a whole new revenue area lots of jobs for Instructors

ATB

Duncan




PS All courses mentioned are purely fictitious and bear no relation to reality

Ha ha, I truly hope this kind of thing never becomes a reality! We'll need training and certificates to wipe our own ar5e soon! I agree people should learn not to kill their children with carbon Monoxide poisoning. I don't think it's down to camp sites to teach everyone about every hazard that might happen though. Common sense goes a long way in life.

 

[shaggystu]

If this goes on we're gonna see a knee jerk action from the Gouvernment too.......

if what goes on? a thread on an internet forum? is that all we need to get a "knee jerk reaction from the gouvernment (sic)"? if so i propose a new thread........"silly knife laws, can we do something positive?" or maybe "access rights for wild camping, can we do something positive?"

 

[wattsy]

Simples.... Ban all adults from having children unless passing a common-sense and intelligence test. I'm sure that'll save hundreds of lives.

Anyone willing to support that?

i've been arguing for that for years i also think you should only get benefits for the first 2 kids you have (if you have more) stop spongers having babies just so they can get more money then

 

[shaggystu]

Originally Posted by Andy BB ?? What - people taking responsibility for their own equipment? Heavens above, why on earth would I do that? Thats The Government's job, surely.....​

I would have suggested that they get the heaters checked regularly as well, but didn't want to step too far into the realms of fantasy.

sorry but i don't see whereabouts in the statement that i quoted that you say anything about people "taking responsibility for their own equipment", what i read was that "anyone with half a brain should be aware that things like heaters in caravans should be protected by CO moniters, which you should test". i'm not for one moment questioning the idea that people should take responsibility, i just think that the idea that people somehow have an inherent ability to safely use a caravan gas heater is a "step too far into the realms of fantasy"

 

[Andy BB]

sorry but i don't see whereabouts in the statement that i quoted that you say anything about people "taking responsibility for their own equipment", what i read was that "anyone with half a brain should be aware that things like heaters in caravans should be protected by CO moniters, which you should test". i'm not for one moment questioning the idea that people should take responsibility, i just think that the idea that people somehow have an inherent ability to safely use a caravan gas heater is a "step too far into the realms of fantasy"

Apparently you don't think installing and checkling CO monitors in caravans with heaters is "taking responsibility for their own equipment". I beg to differ.

And, again, it also appears you don't think people should take responsibility for getting their heaters checked either? I beg to differ again......

 

[shaggystu]

Apparently you don't think installing and checkling CO monitors in caravans with heaters is "taking responsibility for their own equipment". I beg to differ.

And, again, it also appears you don't think people should take responsibility for getting their heaters checked either? I beg to differ again......

not entirely sure where you're getting that impression from, i certainly never said anything to suggest that i think that way, in fact what i actually said is "i'm not for one moment questioning the idea that people should take responsibility...", maybe you mis-read/mis-understood me

 

[MartinK9]

i've been arguing for that for years i also think you should only get benefits for the first 2 kids you have (if you have more) stop spongers having babies just so they can get more money then

As a single tax payer I often wonder why couples who have children should get benefits at all?

State sponsored reproduction programme. I want the government to pay me for not having any kids. Fair's fair.

 

[Andy BB]

not entirely sure where you're getting that impression from, i certainly never said anything to suggest that i think that way, in fact what i actually said is "i'm not for one moment questioning the idea that people should take responsibility...", maybe you mis-read/mis-understood me

Possibly from your statement " i just think that the idea that people somehow have an inherent ability to safely use a caravan gas heater is a "step too far into the realms of fantasy" "!

My position is simple - if you have the equipment, you have a duty/responsibility to use it safely (in this case, installing CO monitors ad getting the heater maintained regularly). Not sure about the risks? Look them up. If you are an adult, and mentally competent, you don't have a "get out of jail free" card by saying "It's someone else's fault for not putting a great warning big label on it, then training me in its use". The risks have been publicised enough. Who in this country is unaware that gas, electricity, fire and water can be dangerous if misused? Take responsibility for your own actions, and don't blame anyone else if you get it wrong.

 

[Bucephalas]

Guy's, this thread was supposed to be positive and not cause infighting.
This isn't a debate about parenting nor is it about banning anything.

I have personal experience of loss in my family relating to CO poisoning and I know most bushcrafters have indepth knowledge of the risks etc.
I wouldn 't want my fist learning curve to be the death of my 19year old who doesn't come back from a festival to learn of the dangers. The average happy camper has little knowledge of the risks and these are the people I'm talking about reaching.

AndyB, looks like your just trolling so take it elsewhere. If this thread upsets you then switch your pc off.

 

[Andy BB]

Pointing out that legislation (as suggested by another poster) to address this issue is massively counter-productive to personal freedoms is hardly trolling. However, I accept that as the OP you can exercise your authority to limit the debate, so will take no further part in this.

 

[shaggystu]

Possibly from your statement " i just think that the idea that people somehow have an inherent ability to safely use a caravan gas heater is a "step too far into the realms of fantasy" "!.....

in that case you obviously did mis-understand me

My position is simple - if you have the equipment, you have a duty/responsibility to use it safely (in this case, installing CO monitors ad getting the heater maintained regularly).

i agree entirely, if you own a caravan park and are renting out your equipment then you do have a duty/responsibility to ensure that it's used safely, by putting up signs warning of the dangers for example. likewise, if you're manufacturing/selling something that could cause harm then i feel that you have a responsibility to the end user, at the bare minimum you probably should take some reasonable steps to ensure that your customer knows how to use the equipment safely. i think a warning label could be classed as reasonable steps.

Not sure about the risks? Look them up.

where?

If you are an adult, and mentally competent, you don't have a "get out of jail free" card by saying "It's someone else's fault for not putting a great warning big label on it, then training me in its use".

couldn't agree more

The risks have been publicised enough.

have they? where, when, and how did you decide that there's been "enough" publicity? what about the kid who lives across the road from me, he's only 3, has there been enough publicity to ensure that his kids are safe?

Who in this country is unaware that gas, electricity, fire and water can be dangerous if misused?

i was asked once, by an adult, a mentally competent adult (a medical student as it happens), if a crisp bag would burn if she put it on the open fire. never underestimate the stupidity of people

Take responsibility for your own actions, and don't blame anyone else if you get it wrong.

again, completely agreed

 

[FGYT]

As a single tax payer I often wonder why couples who have children should get benefits at all?

State sponsored reproduction programme. I want the government to pay me for not having any kids. Fair's fair.

Ah but if your not going to reproduce and add to the future we might as well get rid of you now to save resources for those that do
NO Kids to look after you in your old age means state funded care home

 

[Lister]

My thought would be:

If it is a commercial campsite e.g a caravan park (as opposed to a farmers field) then the duty of care is there under HASAWA* to ensure that all risks are minimised, to the campsite all this means is to say to visitors when they arrive disposable BBQs are not allowed in tents, with signage to back this up. It's not hard, it's not preachy.

I'm with most in the "darwinism" camp but i also understand you will get first-time campers and they won't think of the dangers BUT I would hope first-time campers go to attended caravan parks and so what i said above is backed up, granted they shouldn't have to but it will only be a matter of time before someone thinks:

"ah, that campsite is attended, it's a business, businesses have a duty of care under HASAWA for visitors*, I'll sue them"

* The duty of care only extends so far as to control the risks, yes the sites can ban disposable BBQs etc in tents but 1 it would be hard to police all night, 2 doing so would probably lose them trade and 3 they may not want to be seen as "preachy".

 

[Wayland]

Simples.... Ban all adults from having children unless passing a common-sense and intelligence test. I'm sure that'll save hundreds of lives.

Anyone willing to support that?

I think they tried that before.

They called it Eugenics...

 

[Lister]

I think they tried that before.

They called it Eugenics...

They do that in China, only problem is the asians are just too damn smart! </tongueincheek></notracist>

 

[FGYT]

My thought would be:

If it is a commercial campsite e.g a caravan park (as opposed to a farmers field) then the duty of care is there under HASAWA* to ensure that all risks are minimised, to the campsite all this means is to say to visitors when they arrive disposable BBQs are not allowed in tents, with signage to back this up. It's not hard, it's not preachy.

I'm with most in the "darwinism" camp but i also understand you will get first-time campers and they won't think of the dangers BUT I would hope first-time campers go to attended caravan parks and so what i said above is backed up, granted they shouldn't have to but it will only be a matter of time before someone thinks:

"ah, that campsite is attended, it's a business, businesses have a duty of care under HASAWA for visitors*, I'll sue them"

* The duty of care only extends so far as to control the risks, yes the sites can ban disposable BBQs etc in tents but 1 it would be hard to police all night, 2 doing so would probably lose them trade and 3 they may not want to be seen as "preachy".

unfortunately there are a massive number of risks you could do this with you would end up with a massive wall of very small print that no one would read any way.


there have been quite number of these deaths over the last few years that Ive seen on National level news so I would think it can be assumed it is within the public consciousness

 

[shaggystu]

OK, forget it. I'll move this subject to another forum with mature grown up members. Too many trolls here today.

that's a real shame, do you mind me asking where it's moved to? if it's anywhere that i'm a member of i'll look out for it there

 

[MartinK9]

Ah but if your not going to reproduce and add to the future we might as well get rid of you now to save resources for those that do
NO Kids to look after you in your old age means state funded care home

Not if I've spent within my means all my life, saved and have a plan in place to pay for it all.

 

[FGYT]

Not if I've spent within my means all my life, saved and have a plan in place to pay for it all.

Bu@@er that Burn it all while you can enjoy it