Canoeing trip Scandinavia: asking advice

[Wayward_Son]

Hello, this is going to be a massive advice-asking post, so for the ones who are like "Woah there Charles Dickens, I didn't come here to read a novel" we've put a "Too long, didn't read" version below our introduction.

We're a group of 4 Dutchies (2 girls & 2 guys) going on a 1-1,5 week long canoeing/camping trip next month starting in the far-east of Norway and crossing the border into Sweden. This is pretty much our first real outdoors trip so we're hoping to get some solid advice on what precise gear to buy, what to pack and other need-to-know stuff about this kind of trip regarding camping, fishing, etc. We're starting completely from scratch and we have less than two weeks to acquire all the necessary equipment, including backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, etc. The whole deal. So please, throw your ideas for a packlist at us, but brand and specific type recommendations are especially very welcome. We could definitely use some help in picking the exact stuff. Thanks a million in advance for any help!

TL;DR
- We're 4 newbies flying to Oslo to do a canoeing trip in July for >1 <1.5 weeks in Scandinavia (10-20 C)
- Need packlist + specific brand/type equipment recommendations (everything lightweight/small as possible)
- Starting from scratch & have less than 2 weeks to acquire all gear (from tent to compass)
- We're students, so our budget isn't super vast but we'd like to make a long-term investment in decent quality gear.
- Any practical advise regarding packing, camping, fishing, self-sustenance, etc. is also greatly appreciated!

[Trail & weather info]
The company where we will be renting the canoes is called Scandiatrail (http://www.scandiatrail.com/) and is located just across the border in Grunnerud, Sweden. We plan to do the "Aspernturen" trail, which primarily takes place on the Norwegian side. It's a distance of approximately 90 km and includes one lock and two portages. Thanks to allemansrett, we're allowed to camp anywhere we want, make fires, pick berries, etc. We can also fish freely with a week fishing license. Along the trail, there are two tiny villages where we can get provisions: Strømsfoss (NO) and Nössemark (SWE). However, we'd like to try to gather most of our food from the wild. The temperature in Strømsfoss in July is between 10-20 degrees Celsius, with a mean temp of around 16 C and relatively heavy rainfall: http://en.climate-data.org/location/486289/
~Please do share it if you know anything about this area: how to best set up camp, how to fish/forage in and around these rivers, safety precautions to consider, or otherwise helpful tips to the route in question.

[Gear needs]
As for the gear, we'd like to pack as lightly as possible. Not only would we like to be free to go on hikes without having to leave anything but our canoes behind, but due to chronic back issues, we need to go easy on the weight.
Furthermore, since we don't have any equipment yet, we view this as a long-term investment for similar camping/hiking trips so we're looking for quality. Though seeing as we're also students, we can't aim for overly expensive material. So yes, we'd love to hear it if any of you have suggestions for us on gear (available in Europe/NL) that is as lightweight and small as possible, but also suitable for surviving in the Scandinavian wild for about a week.

Again, thanks for any help and we'd love to hear from you.

 

[Toddy]

Hello, and welcome to the forum

Personally, if you were my kids, and totally inexperienced, I'd ask Scandiatrail if they do a course, and if they know of a guide.

Seriously, you will not be able to gather enough food for four of you while on the move, especially in an area you don't know. 90km in a week isn't hard going, but you have to keep going, and that needs nourishment and decent rest. Especially if you haven't canoed before and the muscle memory isn't there as a back up&#8230;..and you have chronic back problems.

Enthusiasm and determination are very good things, but sometimes they need a bit longer forethought.

Reassure me that you've all at least done a decent first aid course ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Bluffer]

I advise expeditions as a professional advisor.

In my opinion, you have failed already.

Your proposal is not viable, for several reasons.

There are several 'show-stoppers' and no viable escape routes/Plan B.

Maybe re-assess your goals, revise your timelines, get some training and better preparation, re-plan for 2016.

One important question, the first question I ask because it will ultimately determine whether you succeed or fail:

Why are you doing this?

Good luck with your journey, I mean your planning and preparation journey.

Best wishes

 

[sunndog]

Seriously, i'd wind it back a bit fella......ambitious plans for a grand adventure are great and all. but get a little experiance first

As bluffer suggested re-schedule for a later date and start a little closer to home. This advice is not only for your own safety and enjoyment but also to find out what kind of camping/kit choices suit you personally
On here you could get traditional minded bushcrafters giving kit lists of canvas, leather, and even wikka products.....you could also attract the ultralight crowd and be told to get bivvy bags and cuben fiber micro tarps

Your own (and the other three's) preference will likely fall somewhere between those two extremes. So its not really a good place to start for long term investments in kit to be used for years to come

Or as toddy say's see if you can sign up for a guided course/trip they will give you a basic kit list and maybe even provide/hire some of the larger items

Besides, being totally honest (for your own safety and enjoyment) your timescale is completely unrealistic mate
Getting four total beginers kitted out and on a trip in two weeks is giving me a headache just thinking about it
Two weeks prep time is short even for a seasoned campaigner

Seriously though dude....I know we sound like captain buzzkill's buzzkilling instructors, but due to your time limits and inexperiance you will almost certainly make poor choices and pay for them later. Either financially or worse

 

[horsevad]

The area suggested is not a wilderness area - it is quite populated, but with some luck you can find stretches of water which resembles untouched nature.

As such the area is generally well-suited for beginners.

Kit lists aren't all that important for short trip in the scandinavian lowlands, especially as you travel by canoe. Bring whatever gear you are used to from trips in your own country. Think of the following groups of kit:

Canoe with paddles (remember extra paddle)
Canoe safety gear: Lifejackets, towing rope, small bucket (to scoop water out of the canoe). Tie the bucket to the canoe.
For long portages on established trails: canoe cart
Tents / tarps (WITH MOSQUITO NETS)
Sleeping bags and sleeping pads
Backpacks (With waterproof liner)
Food
Water purification and water containers
Stove and fuel
Rain gear
Hiking boots
Navigation: Map, Tour Description, Compass, GPS
Environmental concerns: Garbage bag for garbage and spade for burying human waste
Safety equipment (to be worn on the person at all times): Knife, Fire-starting equipment, Small Compas. (In that area you are never more than a days walk from inhabited places.)
First aid supplies
Tools: Small axe for fires, needle and thread, duct tape for canoe repair purposes, paracord (or similar) for general utility
Photographic equipment.
Mobile phone and solar charger. (There is good GSM coverage in the area)


From my viewpoint there are three separate problems in your planning, one of these has already been adressed by Toddy.

1: You will not be able to gather any significant amount of food in that kind of trip. You should bring full provisions and view any berries or fish you are able to harvest as a supplement.

2: You have not provided a detailed map of your chosen route, but as I know that area quite well I know that there are a number of rather wide lakes in that area. This means that you are quite exposed for strong winds.

If you do not have any kind of paddeling experience this can mean having to wait for the wind to die down before continuing. This means that although 90km in a week sounds as a quite relaxed schedule it can quickly become a rather ambitious target if the wind is too strong.
Do not attempt to paddle in strong winds or in strong currents unless you have specifically trained for it.

3:Mosquitoes. They will drive you mad, if you aren't well-prepared. Start of july is the main season for mosquitoes, their quantities so large that DEET and similar only have a minimal dampening effect on their numbers. Whenever you are ashore (or out of the wind) you will need to wear mosquito netting.

This (http://www.thermacell.com/mosquito-repellent/appliances/mosquito-repellent-appliance-in-olive) apparatus has a very good reputation in scandinavia as one of the very few of the anti-mosquito products which actually works. It can be bought locally in Sweden.


Post a detailed map of your route for more specific comments.

//Kim Horsevad

 

[Bluffer]

As such the area is generally well-suited for beginners.

... Bring whatever gear you are used to from trips in your own country.

Packing and feeding aside, the two points above are 'show-stoppers'

They are absolute beginners.

They have no gear already.

If you asked me for professional advice, I would decline.

I would ask you to do a massive re-think and come back later, with more realistic goals.

 

[SGL70]

I'm with Horsevad on this one...

 

[forestwalker]

The trip as such -- paddling for a week or two in that region -- is fine. The idea of living of the land, not so fine. Talk to the outfitter, ask for a suggested route that is not too demanding. The outfitter you are going to use claim to have kit to rent, and also to guided tours. That would probably be a better way to start if you have no experience.

Notes about the weather: it can get warm, but also a bit chilly (+5 C on a cold night is not impossible), count on rain, also mosquitos (headnets or good lotion, any petrol station or grocery store in the area will sell you some).

 

[Bluffer]

I'm with Horsevad on this one...

Which illustrates an important factor.

It is human nature to under-estimate risk when doing familiar activities in familiar situations.

There is a lot of detail missing, which makes this question difficult to place in context.

Two things are for sure in my mind:

The proposal as written above is risky and carries a high risk of failure (novices, chronic MSK condition(s), unfamiliar environment, lack of experience, lack of knowledge, etc).

By adding the services of a guide/assistant, the risks are significantly reduced.

 

[SGL70]

Well I agree in a way. A guide could be handy.

But this is, imho, a low risk adventure. Scandi lowlands, not K2. Also summer. Risk is, off course, always present.

Also, if 100% is known beforehand it is less enjoyable...for me, at least.

If building a fire, living, sleeping etc gets too much, I assume they turn back.

 

[Goatboy]

Aren't we prevaricating rather than.answering.the OP's question?
Though I personaly feel that they may be over stretching themselves especially with someone with chronic backpain sitting and carrying an unfamiliar craft we haven't really given them a kit list.like they asked. A bit like committees getting bogged down.
I've no real experience of what kit is available in their part of the world. But they'll need tents (or hammocks) with bug protection. Something to cook on and eat with. Somewhere to store food between re-supply. Clothes and footwear and all the sundries that go with abiding there.
To the OP I'd be surprised if the folk you are hiring the craft from didn't have a recomended kit list. My main worry is that without actually speaking to you I can't gauge what skill level you do have and just what kit you can afford. I've kitted out some expeds before but meeting and chatting to the folk going was always a prerequisite of that.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Bluffer]

Fully agree.

If they get some minimal advice, support and training from the hire firm, it's just a question of kitting up and packing.

I don't want to over-egg the dangers or be a Drama Queen, but this sort of trip can end up in a coroners in-tray all too easily.

 

[Nomad]

- Need packlist + specific brand/type equipment recommendations (everything lightweight/small as possible)
- Starting from scratch & have less than 2 weeks to acquire all gear (from tent to compass)
- We're students, so our budget isn't super vast but we'd like to make a long-term investment in decent quality gear.

I don't see how you can expect anyone to "help in picking the exact stuff" or provide "specific brand/type equipment recommendations" without knowing what you have to spend. You say you have no kit, but is clothing to be included? If not, what clothing are you planning to wear/bring?

 

[Goatboy]

Maybe the likes of Ahjno can help? He mau know the name of the really good Dutch outfitters (Beaver Sports/Outdoor rings a bell).
Anyway they have a great rep for kitting folk out, are supposed to be good on price and advice.
As they're in the same country it might be possible to head along there (all four of them) and talk and get geared up.
When I ran a big outdoor shop it wasn't unknown for me to kit groups out in this way and sort any problems they may have at the same time.
But the group will have to get a shift on as time is running out.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[boatman]

Little idea about the challenges these adventurous young people might face. But, I have read many books written by and about early travellers who, if this forum had existed back then, would never have set foot outdoors.

 

[nephilim]

Having done what you ask (with a variance that I was walking and not canoeing), I'd recommend that you don't do it until you're comfortable with camping out in your native country.

Norway can get.very cold at.night, even in the summer. You're asking for lightweight, cheap and good gear. Pick 2 of those requirements and yeah we can then recommend for you.

Now as for living on the land, good luck. I don't recommend it as you
A) cannot hunt without permission and if caught it's a hefty fine and perhaps a sentence in jail.
B) foraging is going to be sparse as Norwegians from experience like to pick the best and freshest where possible (all I managed to pick on my hike was about half a kilo of lingonberries in 2 weeks).
C) fishing is going to be a tough task as the fish will have likely done their spawn cycle and looking to go downstream and you will have probably missed prime season.
D) litter laws. Leaving traces of a camp can land you in hot water. Sweden not so much due to their camping laws but Norway have cracked down on it recently to preserve their natural wildlife and habitats.

I'm short...re think it. Sorry to be blunt.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

 

[boatman]

An example, think of the distances that the Wordsworths, brother and sister, and Coleridge walked in the foot wear of the period, Stevenson having a bivvy bag made, loading it on a donkey and wandering in France or John MacGregor virtually inventing the sport of canoeing and travelling all over in it. Not to mention those who walked the lengths of America or strolled across Europe, from Coryate to many today.

 

[Riven]

Hi wayward son don't be put off this is no trek into a vast unknown my wife and I have done this sort of trip at the same time of year and have visited the canoe hire place you are using. Arjang is well served with shops so supplies are easy to obtain and equipment can be hired at the canoe rental. Check with them to see what they have as will save you buying gear and lugging it there. Up until our first trip neither of us had been in a canoe (although I did kayak, first time in Amsterdam as a kid) so its not too bad. Barrels can also be hired to keep everything dry in case of a spill. Trangias to cook with can also be hired so your list of things to take becomes smaller and lighter.
Goodluck and go for it, Riven.

 

[Wayward_Son]

Hi wayward son don't be put off this is no trek into a vast unknown my wife and I have done this sort of trip at the same time of year and have visited the canoe hire place you are using.

Great to hear from someone who has actually been to the same place and know exactly what we will be dealing with. We were getting quite worried reading all the cautionary tales that we completely underestimated the area.

Arjang is well served with shops so supplies are easy to obtain and equipment can be hired at the canoe rental. Check with them to see what they have as will save you buying gear and lugging it there.

We decided on doing this before reading your post but glad to know that we are on the right track. Would you recommend getting as much of the gear from them as possible?

Up until our first trip neither of us had been in a canoe (although I did kayak, first time in Amsterdam as a kid) so its not too bad.

Can I ask what trail you did? Did you also do the Aspernturen trail or did you opt for the shorter and easier trail? We were starting to doubt if we could handle the Aspernturen trail being inexperienced paddlers. We have all been in canoes before but not on an actual canoeing trip.

Barrels can also be hired to keep everything dry in case of a spill.

We didn't see this on the website so were wondering about it but good to hear that they do provide barrels. Did you also take dry bags with you?

Trangias to cook with can also be hired so your list of things to take becomes smaller and lighter.

Great! Do they also supply the fuel for the Trangia?

Goodluck and go for it, Riven.

Thanks, you gave us some hope that we can still go on this trip and have a great time and more importantly not die haha. Since we already booked our tickets etc not going would not have really been an option but we were doubting whether to go ahead with the canoeing at all. We definitely are now.

 

[Toddy]

I hope you have fun and that it's a great trip
I do think contacting your hire company first though and checking what they can supply will really make things a lot easier for you all though.

There is an active bushcraft forum in the Netherlands, with good capable people who I'm sure would happily help suggest where to buy any kit that's needed nearer home to you.
One of the Mods here, Ahjno, is Dutch; if he doesn't see this thread, I'll flag it for his attention.
Lots of good advice from other folks, with relevant experience, here too though

Best wishes for good weather, and low numbers of mozzies

cheers,
Toddy