Camp in woods dilemma.

[Yggdrasil]

Hi all,
I need some help

The story:

While out for a walk in the woods with 2 friends we decided to build a group debris shelter. It went really well and after a while of enjoying our work we decided to build a small fire outside it. A few other friends have been back to the shelter with me and by themselves. It has became a really good place to relax in the evening. We are starting to imagine building more round this central fire however it feels asthough we are trespassing. We are very careful to have complete respect for everything around us while we are there and make no noise, however without permission from the land owner i cannot decide whether or not to build more and just accept it when we are moved on or go and ask permission from the land owner before continuing building the temporary structures.

Another point to bring up is that there is a very popular walk that goes directly through these woods as well as there are quite a few other previously attempted shelters by other people situated throughout the woodland.

This site seemed like the most logical place to ask as i can imagine a few of you have been in a similar situation before. Any suggestions would be great.

Cheers,
Rob.

 

[BOD]

Do what you think is right not what is convenient

 

[mace242]

I would speak to the land owner. It's only polite and if you show him a well maintained area and that you are willing to look out for people up to no good in the woods and will pick up any litter you come across, etc (generally treat him and his woods with respect) then he's more likely to let you do what you're doing.

Though I've not spoken to lots - most land owners I know are good sorts and don't mind what you're doing.

 

[mace242]

That's good advice to live by I reckon. Well said.

 

[commandocal]

Yep almost exactly the same situation, went for a walk made a shelter,made a fire,stopped the night, thought about making more structures around the place but luckily it was a public wood that unfortunatly no one uses so now we have 2 three person shelters, 2 log couches, 4 chairs a fire pit which everything is situated around which has a tarp above it to keep of the rain. A really cosy place, i go there when im not doing anything like a rainy day with a flask and just sit by a fire:aargh4: :notworthy

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have just got home from a walk in the woods and have found that people have used the shelter and left a large peice of plastic covering the entrance. I dont mind people using it as thats what its for but the unnatural materials being there makes it dangerous to animals as well as would anger any land owner so i removed it and have brought it back with me to dispose of.

Im now contemplating putting up a small wooden sign asking people not to leave anything like that around. This will help keep it tidy but also would show people who are worried about our presence that we have respect for the woods.

Sounds to me like you've got it spot on in those woods. That sounds exactly what i imagine this spot to be like in the future.

 

[commandocal]

Thats a good idea, i was thinking about leaving a bit of paper in these shelters to ask anyone that uses them to take care of them and add their own structures if they wanted, but didnt bother i think i might though, never know might have a little village going on

Is it private land you are on? surely if you are walking on it in the first place and your not poaching and not destroying the place you would make a camp without worrying? And im sure the land owner will not be bothered if you let him know this but if its public woods it should be ok if you pick a good spot

 

[Pablo]

I have just got home from a walk in the woods and have found that people have used the shelter and left a large peice of plastic covering the entrance. I dont mind people using it as thats what its for but the unnatural materials being there makes it dangerous to animals as well as would anger any land owner so i removed it and have brought it back with me to dispose of.

.

Even more reason for asking the landowner for permission. He/she might think that you have left the plastic about. It won't do any harm if you say that you will keep an eye on things and help clear up after other (inconsiderate) people as well.

Pablo.

 

[Lurch]

I'd be pretty hacked of if I was the owner of some woodlands and people were building structures and setting fires in it.
You say you feel like you are trespassing, sounds to me like you are and could be construed as causing criminal damage by setting fires and other wise using wood which does not belong to you.
Wildcat bushcraft in this kind of manner can only cause bad feeling between owners and users and make it more likely that people doing the right thing and asking for permission will get knocked back.

 

[Stew]

I'd be pretty hacked of if I was the owner of some woodlands and people were building structures and setting fires in it.
You say you feel like you are trespassing, sounds to me like you are and could be construed as causing criminal damage by setting fires and other wise using wood which does not belong to you.
Wildcat bushcraft in this kind of manner can only cause bad feeling between owners and users and make it more likely that people doing the right thing and asking for permission will get knocked back.

I agree Lurch. Well said.

You know you're doing wrong. By asking here you're hoping for approval, not opinion.

 

[rancid badger]

I'd be pretty hacked of if I was the owner of some woodlands and people were building structures and setting fires in it.
You say you feel like you are trespassing, sounds to me like you are and could be construed as causing criminal damage by setting fires and other wise using wood which does not belong to you.
Wildcat bushcraft in this kind of manner can only cause bad feeling between owners and users and make it more likely that people doing the right thing and asking for permission will get knocked back.

Absolutely right!
This is exactly the sort of thing that I have to deal with on a regular basis.Whether or not woodland is public or privately owned makes no difference. By far the worst thing any person or persons who claim to be 'bushcrafters' can do is leave any sort of structure behind when they leave. If you own the land or have written permission to use it then you can either; please yourself because its your's or please yourself assuming the land owner is happy with what ever it is your doing.
A person who really does care about the area they use leaves nothing behind. Leaving shelters and other structures, as well as the remains of fires is, to the vast majority of people,nothing short of vandalism.
I have to deal with numerous accusations and claims from members of the public that; 'someone has been 'doing' bushcraft in the woods and has left a right mess'. My initial response is almost always that true bushcrafters dont leave a trace and, on further investigation, I find the remains of half baked shelters and massive log fires, usually decorated with a liberal sprinkling of beer cans and broken bottles.
the point is that, to the public, the remains of fires, shelters etc are all simply the marks left by vandals.
This is exactly what we dont need, if you use land without the right to do so and leave structures behind into the bargain, your asking for potentially serious trouble. someone else mentioned setting up seats and fire pits etc. well what happens when joe public tries out your seat or whatever and for the sake of argument, it collapses , injuring said member of public-who's to blame?. same for the fire pit; joe's walking along and stumbles into your pit and breaks his ankle, leg neck or back-who's to blame?
in short: dont use land thats not yours without permission, dont leave anything behind.
if you do, your basically a vandal!
R.B.

 

[commandocal]

ok i agree with you there Rancid good point , the fire pit isnt really a pit, as for the shelter i made with braken and solid logs that where already cut down from years ago,i didnt destroy any trees to make these, like i said also its an unused wood/land even the council has abandoned it. No longer doing routine bin clearence and litter clearnence, you can stay on the biggest path all day and not see anyone , I look after the place i dont leave litter etc. So what harm is leavin up stable structures and then throwing the remenants of these structures away again since i go once a week, May as well keep them up. Im 17 i will only be doing this another 6 months and trying to keep out of trouble better me going into the woods, looking after the place and having a good time instead of hanging about the streets drunk taking drugs giving people hassle and causing trouble, I think i know my choice no matter what good argument you give ( which i know you are right )

 

[Stew]

ok i agree with you there Rancid good point , the fire pit isnt really a pit, as for the shelter i made with braken and solid logs that where already cut down from years ago,i didnt destroy any trees to make these, like i said also its an unused wood/land even the council has abandoned it. No longer doing routine bin clearence and litter clearnence, you can stay on the biggest path all day and not see anyone , I look after the place i dont leave litter etc. So what harm is leavin up stable structures and then throwing the remenants of these structures away again since i go once a week, May as well keep them up. Im 17 i will only be doing this another 6 months and trying to keep out of trouble better me going into the woods, looking after the place and having a good time instead of hanging about the streets drunk taking drugs giving people hassle and causing trouble, I think i know my choice no matter what good argument you give ( which i know you are right )

Which woods are you talking about? Weelsby Woods or Bradley Woods?

 

[commandocal]

Dixon woods Next to bradley, I believe bradley is still maintained a bit

 

[commandocal]

Weelsby woods isnt a wood either, its a plain of grass surrounded by an outline of trees

 

[Stew]

Weelsby woods isnt a wood either, its a plain of grass surrounded by an outline of trees

I know that but there's plenty of space to play in.

Dixon woods Next to bradley, I believe bradley is still maintained a bit

Ah, I had forgotten that there was a distinction between the two. Are there really bins in Dixon's? That surprises me!

I've done some coppice work there in conjunction with the local ranger service. Perhaps you could help them out a bit too.

 

[bosknurft]

Uncultured woodland is scarce enough in our part of the world, and practicing any kind of bushcraft in such an area will cause quite a bit of disruption to its ecosystem.

Lighting fires in the woods is, imho, something you shouldn't dream of doing, unless it's in an actual life-or-death situation, or if you're in Alaska, or Scandinavia, or any other place where the population density is low enough for natural areas to be able to recover.

 

[commandocal]

Stew how can i help them out, in what way and how would i contact them? I would be well up for some volunteer work if its helping the last bit of wilderness near me, and yes their is bins if you look on the - Now overgrown paths. They are red bins flowing over the top with wildlife growing all over them havnt been emptied in years

 

[Stew]

Stew how can i help them out, in what way and how would i contact them? I would be well up for some volunteer work if its helping the last bit of wilderness near me, and yes their is bins if you look on the - Now overgrown paths. They are red bins flowing over the top with wildlife growing all over them havnt been emptied in years

I'll have a search for you. I also did a short stint of work experience with the area ranger - he was based in the Tourist Info Centre in Cleethorpes.

 

[rancid badger]

ok i agree with you there Rancid good point , the fire pit isnt really a pit, as for the shelter i made with braken and solid logs that where already cut down from years ago,i didnt destroy any trees to make these, like i said also its an unused wood/land even the council has abandoned it. No longer doing routine bin clearence and litter clearnence, you can stay on the biggest path all day and not see anyone , I look after the place i dont leave litter etc. So what harm is leavin up stable structures and then throwing the remenants of these structures away again since i go once a week, May as well keep them up. Im 17 i will only be doing this another 6 months and trying to keep out of trouble better me going into the woods, looking after the place and having a good time instead of hanging about the streets drunk taking drugs giving people hassle and causing trouble, I think i know my choice no matter what good argument you give ( which i know you are right )

When I teach Bushcraft, one of the first things I tell our clients is: ' when I started learning bushcraft, it was called ' messing about in the woods'. the thing is, the harm is in the public perception. As far keeping out of trouble, brilliant, good on you, so what's the harm in minimal impact, minimal trace?
I started when I was about 8 and used to tag along with 'the big lads' of about 10 or 11. I always wondered why they left their 'camps' in place, because frequently, on returning they had been destroyed or fallen down by themselves.
later on, when I became one the 'big lads' I would never leave anything. Still later, when I joined the local T.A. I discovered that my preference for leaving no trace was a real advantage although not one that most of my colleagues could understand. My regular army instructors however, were quick to pick up on natural skills and I got to do some really interesting stuff while the majority of the lads sat around waiting for things to happen.
leaving no trace is a challenge to most people and one you might find fun as well as giving you a head start in the future
good luck
R.B.