Bushcraft show?

[sunndog]

Must admit me and my dad often have a chuckle at the kit people bring/wear at the show.
nothing mean, its just odd to us as two people who are outside all day every day and various "bushcraft" activities are day to day stuff for us. Its nice for us to NOT have to wear boots and heavy duty outdoor gear or not be fiddling with rope and suchlike
I EDC a sheath knife for example. I felt more conspicuous wearing one at the show than i do the other 300'od days of the year

The guy dressed head to toe in spotless brand new matching fjallraven gear with about seven leather pouches on his belt (including knife, axe, saw, and even a compass)
was a bit OTT even by the show standards though

Two lads hammock camping near us had most of the DD catalogue set up in a sleeping area with a whole other camp set up for sitting around in. They had two chairs each, one folding camp chair and a "bushcraft" A'frame jungle chair type thing.....and open fire on the floor and, i kid you not, a frontier stove EACH LOL
But that might be one of only a few occasions each year when those two get to try out thier kit, so let them have at it i say

on the leather hat score. Having never owned one, are they not a horrible material to make a hat from?
Seems to me they would be too hot in warm weather, cold in winter, and a floppy cow tongue in the wet?

 

[Klenchblaize]

The guy dressed head to toe in spotless brand new matching fjallraven gear with about seven leather pouches on his belt (including knife, axe, saw, and even a compass) was a bit OTT even by the show standards though.

Picture please!

Cheers

K

 

[CACTUS ELF]

I hear what you guys are saying, it's just I felt he was a bit rude bearing in mind the company he was in. I feel he could have held back on some comments and just talked about the topic at hand. Would you walk up to a group of 20 somethings in a pub and be derogatey about their addidas sports jacket? I don't think so really, so why ray thought it okay I don't understand. As for kit, I personally don't have fjallraven or other similar makes because I choose not to buy it but I'm more than happy for others to do so and feel that those that do look awesome. That are fantastic clothes. I've seen programs where ray has piles of kit being carried by local folk in cheap shorts or grass skirts. Do we need our kit, if it makes us feel secure or cool or if it's nessesary then yeah why not, most the time it's excessive. I've been out all night with just the clothes on my back, would it have been better with a hammock? Maybe it would or maybe just a different experience compleatly. I feel hidden from nature when locked in a tent or hammock with a mozzie net. May as well be at home but having said that I would imagine I'd rather be in a decent shelter if I was at everest base camp etc. So then, is there a right or wrong? Nope just do as you please and try not to offend others with your comments or actions. A better world is there for the taking. Peace and love to all

 

[Robson Valley]

It's entirely possible, if not probable, to start off with too much, one of everything.
While I may have a few of the "just in case of" things, more and more of it got left behind.
I hope that those people get out and away often enough and for long enough to
shake off the extras.
I don't know why some people need to carry what the bring. Their back, not mine.
They probably question my sensibilities as well.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I don't think you were being sensitive, he also said he didn't understand people who did bushcraft at the weekends? To him it's just what you do on an expedition. At another talk on his tour someone asked what his favourite piece of kit was, he said he didn't really like kit so much, really, why is his landrover full of it then when he camps for the "weekend" by a river? I think he may be confused lately or just after a reaction. Shane really, Ray has done some fantastic work and it's disappointing that he shows little respect for his fans and customers of his kit sales.

If you listen to any of Paul Kirtley's podcasts, or watch his youtube videos you'll hear him say "there's no such thing as bushcraft kit, there's bushcraft, then there's kit" And once you think about it, he's right. Given that Paul trained under Ray for a number of years, I'm guessing that there is some commonality between Ray and Paul on this. Which might be one way of interpreting Ray not being interested in kit.

We often take kit with us because lets face it, you don't want to have to make the bow drill set, start the fire, heat the rocks, while you make the bark container to boil the water, then while the tea is stewing build your shelter... But you carry with you the knowledge, the bushcraft so that you can make more effective use of the kit you take. Ideally we'd all get to know the art of Bushcraft to the point where we can venture forth into the bush with just an axe on our shoulder and a knife on our belt and be fine.

Yes Ray owns a lot of kit, we've all seen shots of his landrover, or the row of pots he has in his wild food series. But you can bet that if he were separated from the truck, he'd be fine.

I’m quite saddened to hear that RM thinks of Bushcrafters as “leatherhatters” or that he has little regard for Kit. Given that he inspired so many into appreciating the outdoors way of life and it’s various skills, I find his apparent attitude as somewhat belittling?

I'm not so sure. I think there are many who call themselves bushcrafters, who by doing so demean the many thousands of hours he has spent learning skills and knowledge. For many what we call bushcraft is little more than Camping... I know I'm just as guilty of this as many others.

However, to some degree I have to agree with him, especially by the term “Leatherhatter” (not that wearing a leather hat is anyway derogatory ) For me, coming from an outdoors childhood that included many years in the scouts and then going on to serve for many years in the military and serving in various theatres of operation, I do find a lot of “Bushcrafters” a tad OTT. I don’t intend to offend, but there are a lot of people who put a lot of score in their kit and killing themselves to find the best bits to parade than the actual skill. For me it matters not that I don’t have the most expensive knife, axe, tarp, etc. What matters is that I know how to look after myself and the kit I have is up to the job. I recently say a BC video on a guy explaining the best backpack and his recommendation was a pack that cost in excess of 140 quid??? WHAT?? Why?? For that price I could kit myself out completely. Imo, that is ridiculous.

Leatherhatter I'm not sure about, but spoon carvers is a term I've heard used to describe many who call themselves bushcrafters...

140 quid for a pack? Seems pretty good to me. I remember when I was looking at Berghaus Vulcan packs a decade or so ago they were retailing for 200 quid. I got mine for 80 quid in an army surplus store. Most recently I bought a 1kg Exped Lightning 60 for £125. It's a great pack, transfers load better than any I've ever tried. I'm sure some with balk at the idea of such a pack, and would rather spend 25 quid on a pack on ebay that's covered in PALS webbing, and weighs 3 times as much. You can. But it won't be all that great. But ultimately the pack is not essential to bushcraft. You carry bushcraft in your head, not on your back.

Walking around the bushcraft show last week it was amazing how many were fully kitted for a month in the wild, with all their kit being carried by pack horse. Well, not quite, but it was ridiculous in some cases. Why? Some of which were dressed immaculately pristine, as if on parade. Fully geared up with their knives (several in some cases) perfectly placed on their belts, axes draping their insanely large pristine Long backs. Each to their own I know, but this is probably what RM was referring to?? However, in my opinion he really shouldn’t be so judgmental, mind you, maybe neither should I, I suppose?

I don't get why people would walk round a bushcraft show with so much kit. Water bottle, camera, and what ever else you have as EDC. Why carry anything extra?

Oh, and let's not get onto bushcrafters vs preppers vs survivalists...

J

 

[Nomad64]

Picture please!

Cheers

K

I wish I had taken a picture of the family I saw at last year's show.

Dad; looking like he'd been given a 5 minute "supermarket sweep" in uncle Ray's Woodlore store, Mum; jeans and sweatshirt, 5 year old daughter; pink fairy costume complete with wings and wand.

Dad and daughter looked like they were enjoying themselves hugely, mum looked dangerously bored!

PS Can't really argue with anything QG had to say below.

 

[GoingFeral]

Went to the show - saw some interesting talks/demos, spoke with & asked questions of some interesting people, on the whole enjoyed it. A bit disappointed most of the "hands on" stuff was chargeable when no mention of that in advance though I fully appreciate some of them are doing this for a living. Didn't spend too much either and then only stuff I was thinking of buying any way & could pick up and touch like you can't on the Web!
I thought ray mears comments were reasonable in the context of the talk being about getting out and doing things for real, testing & using the skills. He made much of the American hiker who he thought died needlessly on the appalachian trail, where all her experience counted for nothing without basic navigation & foraging skills. His "expedition" could be a day or two - I think he meant a trip with some purpose.
The leather hat comment was funny - look how many comments in this thread on people with all the clothes & gear. (Yes I've got one, free barmah my dad didn't get on with..).
If you're enjoying what you're doing then all good by me - don't get too hung up on people telling you you have to do this or wear that - there's room enough for spoon whittlers, knife collectors and wildlife watchers